Thread: Correction: Help me build a $2500-3500 computer

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  1. #11  
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    I did with the X99 and Realtime playback at 4K+ full resolution preview. That was with CC 2014 and handled realtime without dropping frames even when CPU load was 100%.
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  2. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Bowen View Post
    The ram will depend on which platform you get. If you decide on a platform then I can recommend what to look for on memory. Any WD Black drives would be fine for raid 0. Seagate Barracuda drives would be the choice for Seagate. They just have a lesser warranty. Performance is about the same with the Seagates having a little better caching model.
    Ok so then in regards to the RAM suggestion, if I were to go with the PC and use adobe what specific type would you suggest, and how well can I survive with 32GB?

    And then in regards to the hard drives, were the WD Black or Seagate recommendations only for mechanical drives, or are they also good for SSD? I just noticed that something like the Intel 750 1.2TB PCIe NVMe SSD is going to probably be a lot more than I can afford.

    I think the gtx 980 ti is probably what I will go with but I am still debating between the 5930k and the 5960x, I guess in part it will depend on how much the RAM you suggest ends up costing, but I guess I'm wondering if the difference of performance will really be 500$ worth? I certainly want to be able to handle footage smoothly, but at the same time I'm not doing it professionally so I suppose everything doesn't have to be top of the line.

    Thanks again for all the help.
    Last edited by Peter Steele; 10-20-2015 at 03:33 PM.
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  3. #13  
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    32GB of ram would work for Premiere well enough. AE is when 32GB becomes far more limited. WD and Seagate recommendations are for mechanical drives only. I suggest Samsung SSD's for solid states although avoid the Evo series for media drives. They are ok for OS but dont have near the endurance rating for media drives. 4K and 5K media will push a 5930K to it's limit. The 5960X handles the realtime playback load of high resolution media much better. It is definitely worth the price when in that workflow.
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  4. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Z View Post
    ECC is very much recommended, especially when using 32GB or more, as there`s more chance for an incorrect bit to occour.
    As for using RAM faster than 2133mhz - you're right. However, I haven't seen any DDR4 16GB sticks that clock higher. That`s why I wrote 2133mhz in the x99 build.
    2666 to 3000 MHz 16GB sticks are becoming common here. Your market is probably a bit behind in Israel at the moment as the 16GB sticks are really just hitting the market, but there are 3000MHz and 2800MHz in stock at vendors here in the US like NewEgg, right now. 4 x 16GB 2800MHz DDR4 can be had for $550, so prices have really gone down too since I built my last X99 system in the other thread here. I paid $800 for 8 x 8GB 2800MHz. I can get 8 x 16GB 3000MHz for $1120.

    ECC can help your RAM from getting scrambled by cosmic radiation or alien probes or whatnot, but ultimately it's not really necessary for desktop systems and chip makers have moved away from it for all but their server platforms that see 24/7/365 server duty or mission critical work. Not even all the Xeon CPU offerings require ECC RAM. And 32GB isn't considered a lot of RAM these days. Not when we can easily put 512GB in commodity dual Xeon boxes and 2TB+ in some of the larger E7 builds.

    As for the budget build here, I would also recommend a Z170 configuration. I'm liking the new ASUS Z170-A motherboard that has USB 3.1 along with a USB-C connector for one of the ports. I have not looked at the Gigabyte motherboard you listed. Seems like a good build though, I would recommend a larger PSU, especially if there is potential for adding another GPU down the road.

    OTOH, the x99 platform with the 5960X is still where it's at. While it unfortunately will use up almost half of the OP's budget just to get the 5960X and a reasonable motherboard, maybe a case and/ or CPU cooler too...

    Win 8.1 seems to be performing the best for us these days, even though I prefer Win7 Pro. Actually I like Win 10 a lot, but not all of our software is happy there yet... Also not so sure about the Google-esque information harvesting and cloud focus of many aspects of it. If building a new system, I would definitely go Win 8.1 and sign up for the free 10 upgrade.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bellari View Post
    Anybody here seeing noticeable real-world specific benefits to DDR4 RAM above 2400-2666MHz besides benchmarking in comparison to 2133Mhz DDR4, be it ECC or non-ECC?

    Just loaded up a new Z170 build with 64GB DDR4, looking to perform some app specific testing as time permits...
    Based on very brief initial Z170 platform testing of DDR4 at 2133 and higher speeds,
    increasing the 6700K CPU frequency seemed to have a much bigger impact on system RAM performance
    than spending more money for higher rated speed RAM. (Ex: overclocking CPU from 4.0 to 4.6GHz or above)

    Just a thought for those pinching pennies for other system components
    like upgrading GPU to 980 Ti / Titan X or adding more 2133MHz RAM versus faster RAM
    (Ex: upgrading to 64GB from absolute minimum 32GB),
    which would have a more noticeable impact on your system performance.

    For similar cost of course I'd take the faster RAM, but I'd stick with 2133MHz on a low-cost build if
    that means better other components or if you want to upgrade
    to more matching speed memory at lower cost later...

    Just initial thoughts...
    Last edited by John Bellari; 10-21-2015 at 12:21 PM.
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  6. #16  
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    The speed of the ram effects how high you can push the realtime load before frames start dropping. GPU acceleration is impacted by this greatly since all of the data piped down to the GPU's goes through ram. What this means is the greater the load or complexity of the timeline the more impact the ram speed will have. This also shows when going from 1/2 resolution preview to full. Clock speed of CPU will always be the or one of the largest components to Realtime playback capability. That doesn't mean the ram doesn't have a significant impact to performance. Slower speed ram will also be lower grade which means higher chance of failure and errors down the road. Keep that in mind before buying 2133 ram just because it's cheaper. Ram is one of those components you get what you pay for.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Bowen View Post
    The speed of the ram effects how high you can push the realtime load before frames start dropping. GPU acceleration is impacted by this greatly since all of the data piped down to the GPU's goes through ram. What this means is the greater the load or complexity of the timeline the more impact the ram speed will have. This also shows when going from 1/2 resolution preview to full. Clock speed of CPU will always be the or one of the largest components to Realtime playback capability. That doesn't mean the ram doesn't have a significant impact to performance. Slower speed ram will also be lower grade which means higher chance of failure and errors down the road. Keep that in mind before buying 2133 ram just because it's cheaper. Ram is one of those components you get what you pay for.
    I have always stuck with Kingston RAM as they have stood by their product over time for my builds, and I think 2133MHz ECC is still official spec for the short term future
    of new releases of E5 and E7 Xeon for the time being in 2016, unless you are hearing different.

    Is the bottleneck you are describing primarily true for Realtime Video software timeline playback only, ie: Adobe CC Pro, AE and BM Davinci Resolve?

    Love to hear your thoughts in detail about SSD useage for those apps, NVME vs Sata SSD RAID 0, as I have been debating a RAID 0 of Samsung 950 Pro 512GB NVME SSD vs 512GB 850 EVO or 850 Pro, vs Intel 750 800GB, possibly in another thread if you have the time
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  8. #18  
    I'm running a 5960X/2666Mhz 32 GB RAM system at the office and a Z170 Deluxe/6700K@4,5Ghz/2400Mhz 32GB RAM at home. With RED material, the main difference (in Resolve) is:

    - With 4K clips on HD timeline, the 5960X with a 4-disk RAID setup runs realtime at Full Res Debayer. The 6700K barely does the same at Half Res Good.
    - With 6K clips on HD timeline, 5960X struggles with realtime playback at Half Res Good, and smoothly runs 1/4 res. The 6700K does 1/4 res but drops frequently from realtime playback if there are many nodes.

    GPU:s are on the same ballpark, 780 6GB on the 5960X and 970 4GB on the 6700K.

    Having crashes with the 6700K in Resolve sometimes when doing tracking, otherwise it's very stable. Running Windows 10 on the 6700K system, Win 7 on the 5960X system.

    Both are ok systems to work with especially with HD footage there's not much difference. The 6700K is a good budget solution but it struggles with high-res footage.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bellari View Post
    I have always stuck with Kingston RAM as they have stood by their product over time for my builds, and I think 2133MHz ECC is still official spec for the short term future
    of new releases of E5 and E7 Xeon for the time being in 2016, unless you are hearing different.

    Is the bottleneck you are describing primarily true for Realtime Video software timeline playback only, ie: Adobe CC Pro, AE and BM Davinci Resolve?

    Love to hear your thoughts in detail about SSD useage for those apps, NVME vs Sata SSD RAID 0, as I have been debating a RAID 0 of Samsung 950 Pro 512GB NVME SSD vs 512GB 850 EVO or 850 Pro, vs Intel 750 800GB, possibly in another thread if you have the time
    Yes 2133 is the locked frequency for ram on Xeons. Intel decided that for some reason though it really doesn't make sense other than staying with official Jedec specs for ECC Reg. Yes I am describing realtime playback on media applications only ie apps with a realtime process requirement. Premiere and Davinci would be in that category. AE would not be. It actually still renders to ram in the background so it;s not a realtime media app.

    SSD Raid 0 with Samsung Pro drives for example average around 1GB/s which is enough for almost all high bandwidth media. Only DPX really is above that at 4K+ at about 1.2GBs or more based on framerate. SSD's will always be the better choice right now though since I can add more SSD's to the system either via onboard controller and put them raid 0 if backups are perfect or on a raid controller in raid 5 or 6 if realtime data protection is required to get the higher speed and volume size for DPX. NVMe drives average 800MB/s to 1.6GB/s but take a slot which are far more valuable in media applications for GPU's, controllers, and expansion. Besides this the SSD route gives far greater volume size. So overall the SSD route is the much better buy. PCI-E lanes are the most valuable expansion to media editing workstations so save those for those devices.
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  10. #20  
    If I were to go with the 5960X which, as Kilgroe said, with the mother board etc will take up most of the budget, where would be the best places to shave some money off?
    As it stands right now I'm thinking of the 5960x, Asus X99-E WS, and the gtx 980 ti.
    Then for the hard drives and RAM I was thinking of taking your suggestion Eric and doing the Samsung Pro SSD and the 2 WD black's for the mechanical's. Now as for sizes, would something like 512GB for the SSD and 2 2TB mechanicals for the Raid 0 be sufficient? I guess I'm still looking for recommendations here.

    And then the final(ish) piece would be the RAM. I am thinking I will probably have to do the 32GB at least for starters, but after reading your posts on RAM speed I am not sure what speed I should aim for? Also, would I be better off doing 2x16GB to leave open the possibility of adding more later, or would I have to do 4x8GB and then re-buy all new RAM later?

    Sorry to load so many questions on you guys heh, it's just that it's not my field at all and so I'm really leaning on the support you've been given, so thanks for all the help!
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