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  #1 Outer ISO space... 
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    There are a lot of people on this board that are (IMHO) worrying about what ISO means as it relates to metadata and RAW capture. My best suggestion is if it doesn't make sense to you, relax on it. It isn't necessary to know Build 16 and forward.

    All you really need to know is that the camera's best ISO range is 320-500. And that you should use these (320, 400, or 500) as your setting and exposure reference. Except...

    1. If you run out of light. Raise your ISO as little as possible given the T-stop of your lens and the light available.

    2. You have too much light (left your NDs at home or they are not strong enough). Lower your ISO as little as possible given the desired T-stop and amount of light.

    Easy. If you really need to know the science behind it... have at it.

    The camera stores in metadata what you set in-camera as your reference.

    If you open your footage and wish you had set a different ISO in-camera (primarily because you missed the exposure), change it in RED Alert! or REDCINE and the RAW file will accommodate you (up to a point). But if you clipped the RAW, it will not give it back to you.

    Most problems occur from missed exposure. Build 16 makes it much more difficult to do that. That is one of the main advantages of Build 16. The other is better noise characteristics.

    Metadata tells the post app what you did. The RAW file lets you change your mind.

    Jim
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Damien Molineaux's Avatar
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    Thank you for the info.

    Will you be releasing new versions of RedAlert and RedCine at the same times as the Beta build 16 ?

    Cheers,
    Damien
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    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthling View Post
    Thank you for the info.

    Will you be releasing new versions of RedAlert and RedCine at the same times as the Beta build 16 ?

    Cheers,
    Damien
    We have finished RED Alert! for Build 16 which has gone out with the Alpha build. REDCINE is trying to catch up. Should be ready with the Beta or certainly with the release build.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

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    Say I shoot something at 100 ISO.
    Then I shoot the exact same thing at 800 ISO, but with the same f-stop/shutter/etc. as before--so I expose it three stops over at ISO 800.

    I set both clips to 100 ISO when I process them. Are they identical or does the ISO change what is written beyond just the metadata? Is there any analogue gain to the sensor or changes in how redcode handles different ISOs?

    I don't understand how you can have roughly the same amount of exposure latitude at all these different ISOs if ISO is just metadata. Wouldn't 100 ISO blow out three stops earlier than 800, but also have three stops more detail in the shadows? Just curious, not trying to be critical at all.
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    Senior Member Damien Molineaux's Avatar
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    Fantastic, looking forward to it.

    We have a short I'm DIT on from the 19th to the 24th, if you (Red team) are able to release the beta by the end of next week, I'll play around with it a little and see with the DP if she wants to use. Otherwise it'll be for the next shoot.

    Many thanks and cheers,
    Damien

    PS I keep being amazed to be able to nearly chat one on one with the Red boss, thank you Jim.
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  #6  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Policar View Post
    Say I shoot something at 100 ISO.
    Then I shoot the exact same thing at 800 ISO, but with the same f-stop/shutter/etc. as before--so I expose it three stops over at ISO 800.

    I set both clips to 100 ISO when I process them. Are they identical or does the ISO change what is written beyond just the metadata? Is there any analogue gain to the sensor or changes in how redcode handles different ISOs?

    I don't understand how you can have roughly the same amount of exposure latitude at all these different ISOs if ISO is just metadata. Wouldn't 100 ISO blow out three stops earlier than 800, but also have three stops more detail in the shadows? Just curious, not trying to be critical at all.
    Here you go... confusing the issue. I'll make another thread for the wonders of ISO/metadata and the meaning of life. Your example starts off exactly opposite to the simple suggestions I just made. If you want to carry this conversation of "what if" further, I would be happy to explain it in another thread. The idea of this one is NOT to confuse people.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
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  7. #7  
    seemed like a fair question to me
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Policar View Post
    Say I shoot something at 100 ISO.
    Then I shoot the exact same thing at 800 ISO, but with the same f-stop/shutter/etc. as before--so I expose it three stops over at ISO 800.

    I set both clips to 100 ISO when I process them. Are they identical or does the ISO change what is written beyond just the metadata? Is there any analogue gain to the sensor or changes in how redcode handles different ISOs?

    I don't understand how you can have roughly the same amount of exposure latitude at all these different ISOs if ISO is just metadata. Wouldn't 100 ISO blow out three stops earlier than 800, but also have three stops more detail in the shadows? Just curious, not trying to be critical at all.
    Not just meta data. My guess is they are using magic pixies to be able to get the most from all ISO's. As a company in tech, they are holding some info close to their hearts. That is apparent from these threads. I would not shoot 800 if you can shoot 350. Your image likely be optimised (sp?) for lower light. Just my guess.
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    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agwah View Post
    seemed like a fair question to me
    In the context of this thread?

    I think it is a very fair question. On some other thread. The purpose of this one is to ease the minds of confused customers. This is the type of question that confounds everyone... seemingly including policar.

    There is another ISO thread. If the question is asked there, I'll be happy to answer it. These "what if" questions are theoretical and have little to do with the practical application of shooting. You don't need the answer to this question to make good ISO and exposure decisions. The reason I posted this thread was to relieve the anxiety of those that think they have to understand it.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by agwah View Post
    seemed like a fair question to me
    I feel for ya Jim.....
    Steve Gal
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