Thread: Slow Motion with RED : Best practices

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    FWIW, I have been happier with the results of shooting half the intended frame rate then using Twixtor/Chronos/etc to make interpolated frames in post. By only capturing at half the over crank, I am able to make better frames - less windowing, less compression - and find the interpolated frames built from these better frames good enough for a more pleasing result. Not effective on all material. YMMV.

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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Phillips View Post
    Brody,

    No problem fam! Glad it all makes sense now! That was the reason for me even starting this thread, to help people make informed decisions to let them know what they are getting into and help with their expectations. I had the Magnesium preordered at first but changed thinking the difference shouldn't be that bad. But, without seeing any examples out there, I made the wrong decision. People keep getting excited with the Raven "Carrion" video which is REALLY dope, but all of those shots are probably no higher than 48-60 fps which would maintain a pretty low compression at those frame rates, but we still didn't see what it would do beyond that.

    Now, I am wondering if the Magnesium would be better. That $20,000 bump is just really high. If you get your Magnesium, I would love to see a quick clip at these frame rates.

    Thank you for the feedback! Glad you feel better about your choice in purchase now!

    Sincerely,

    C. Phillips

    For sure dude, I thought it was a little unfair for a few people on here to start by default blaming the users technique and experience as the problem. (in their defense they didnt have a chance to see any footage yet) But it looks like now, everyone is coming to terms and this has become a very useful thread for anyone looking to purchase either of these cameras, so thanks for heading that front.

    I am waiting on a 7" red touch to ship so in about 2-3 weeks ill definitely post some r3ds!
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    Last edited by Brody_B; 04-21-2016 at 02:24 PM.
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  3. #13  
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    Kris,

    I can try some tests when the time becomes available if you let me know some scenarios. But I must say, with the other example I provided with the Epic X, everything I shot was at 800 ISO, and lowering it didn't help the compression of it. I think noise is a fixed thing, and raising/lowering ISO affects exposure, and ultimately how visible that noise is. I could be wrong, but taking the noise out of it, the compression is still kind of yucky with these cameras at the high frame rates. Epic-X it looks great, even at 9:1 compression.
    Any chance you could do any comparison tests between Epic-X and the new Scarlet at frame rates between 60 and 120 at the highest possible resolution/redcode available for each camera? I've been shooting on an Epic MX for the last couple years and I'm still getting wonderful results every single shoot. I generally shoot 5K WS, at RedCode 8:1 or 10:1... occasionally I'll go 12:1 or even higher if I need to conserve card space in a pinch, and even then I haven't been disappointed in the results. I've never had the need to go above 120 fps, so anything beyond that doesn't concern me. I am concerned now though that Scarlet-W might be an overall downgrade in image quality from an Epic MX. The price was so good to get the Dragon sensor plus newest body type that upgrading seemed like a no brainer, but now I'm having second thoughts. Still would love to get the new body, but not at the cost of image quality. Seeing some side by side comparisons could really help me decide if I should cancel my order or not.

    Thanks
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Rice View Post
    Any chance you could do any comparison tests between Epic-X and the new Scarlet at frame rates between 60 and 120 at the highest possible resolution/redcode available for each camera? I've been shooting on an Epic MX for the last couple years and I'm still getting wonderful results every single shoot. I generally shoot 5K WS, at RedCode 8:1 or 10:1... occasionally I'll go 12:1 or even higher if I need to conserve card space in a pinch, and even then I haven't been disappointed in the results. I've never had the need to go above 120 fps, so anything beyond that doesn't concern me. I am concerned now though that Scarlet-W might be an overall downgrade in image quality from an Epic MX. The price was so good to get the Dragon sensor plus newest body type that upgrading seemed like a no brainer, but now I'm having second thoughts. Still would love to get the new body, but not at the cost of image quality. Seeing some side by side comparisons could really help me decide if I should cancel my order or not.

    Thanks
    i think under only very few shooting circumstances would the scarlet-w be a downgrade from a 4+ year old sensor. A hell of a lot has happened since then, both at Red and in technology as a whole. I would sooner rent an epic for those few occasions and have th dragon sensor regularly.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Brody_B's Avatar
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    Much needed thread Dave, Thank you.

    To all the Raven/S-W future buyers: Layed out in 1 simple sentence: They do NOT do well above 120fps.

    The compression amount is too much with the limited processing capabilities of each of these brains. You can get decent 4k 120fps, which is slow enough looking for most stuff, but don't expect to get good results at any faster fps unless you purchase the weapon line. Thats a major part of why their so much more expensive.

    On a side note, the 120fps 4k looks pretty good and with all the other RED qualities, it is a steal of a camera for both Raven and S-W brains.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Merlen View Post
    If anything you may have talked me out of doing a raven deposit... I wanted it for low res hfr shots without taking the financial hit of taking my rental units out of rotation. But I may just wait for Arri to release a new sensor now instead since soon after that my Amira will be retired and realistically I'm too busy anyway currently to shoot much personal stuff. Or I'll see how much that new phantom mid range costs... Or move up to scarlet w... If need be for anamorphic...

    ps what about hfr on scarlet w monochrome? How much noise and artifacts will be in that model? It would be cleaner I imagine?
    Did You check this out?


    @ C. Phillips

    With STH, I'd rate for ISO 100 @ 200 frps.
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  7. #17  
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    I'm curious now about Raven after this discussion. 60-70% of my paid work is for high frame rate aqcuisition and have a Raven on preorder. Thinking perhaps for my situation a used epic x might be better suited for me, or will Raven (theoretically) be able to produce commercially viable images at 200-240fps with the right settings? Currently shooting a documentary about skateboarder Rune Glifberg aside from the commercial work, and this is another must for a minimum of 200fps. Let me know what you think, I may hold back on Raven until the wait does down and grab an epic x in the meantime.
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  8. #18  
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    Deposit paid... Lol I'm such a fan boy though I may go for scarlet w instead..

    ps had an early top line Raven spot before but cancelled for CF funds... Now I'm super late instead but happy to think about it til fall and weigh options
    Last edited by Brian Merlen; 04-21-2016 at 06:41 PM.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Brody_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Tait View Post
    I'm curious now about Raven after this discussion. 60-70% of my paid work is for high frame rate aqcuisition and have a Raven on preorder. Thinking perhaps for my situation a used epic x might be better suited for me, or will Raven (theoretically) be able to produce commercially viable images at 200-240fps with the right settings? Currently shooting a documentary about skateboarder Rune Glifberg aside from the commercial work, and this is another must for a minimum of 200fps. Let me know what you think, I may hold back on Raven until the wait does down and grab an epic x in the meantime.
    Well from what ive seen, which has only been a few videos, id say no. too much compression artifacts to be commercially viable.
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  10. #20  
    Has there been any 3k WS 200 fps footage from scarlet-w or Raven posted? I'm curious how that looks down scaled to 1080p.
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