Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Phil's NAB Journal 2016

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  1. #21  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreenivasa reddy s View Post
    Thank You very much Phil, been waiting for this. You are my HERO.
    Damn. I wish I was wearing my Superman crew shirt right now :) Thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris McKechnie View Post
    I was waiting for this...NO-ONE does it better than you sir!! You filled the gaps for me since my time was limited at the show. Thanks dude!
    Thanks Chris. I was totally thinking of you as I fiddled around with the new Innovativ cart btw. Didn't break it, so I still like it :)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael Lubtchansky View Post
    Thanks Phil, here's 2 more RED booth eye candy :
    Great to see you again Mikael. And believe me Foolcontrol has been huge for us and me. We're using it on BMW on Sunday.


    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    Thanks Phil. Always good to hang out and discuss imaging with you!
    It's always good "chewing the color fat" with you Graeme. I can't stress how grateful I am for the important work you do. The Color Science where it stands today has made me one happy fellow. You've seen a few of the frames I can't share publicly just yet and that color still blows my mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elsie N View Post
    Side note. After looking at the 8K cameras that are a year or more away at the show and comparing it to the Weapon 8K I shot in February, I can't even explain how incredible what RED has pulled off here.

    Phil, can you clarify this statement? Did you mean you looked at 8k cameras from other companies or did you mean the RED 8k cameras are a year away?
    I don't want to piss on everybody's parade, but I guess I don't mind tinkling on a few toes. Canon indeed had several of their Super 35mm 8K cameras on display at the show. They look like this:



    Additionally they had a 4X Genlock'd 4K projector setup showcasing 8K footage, which I'm actually interested in. 180 inches wide if you're curious.

    These cameras are 3rd generation prototypes, as well as the optics. But take note of a few things.

    - There is no internal 8K recording option. They are recording out to 4X 4K streams, which of course makes things rather large.
    - The scene they had demoed was rated at ISO 640 or 800 depending on the glass used and exhibited approximately 8-9 stops of measured Dynamic Range.
    - The camera's max ISO rating is ISO 6400 on the floor
    - There is very, very noticeable horizontal banding in the shadows. They had black cloth behind the talent which you see here upper frame left.
    - Their current generation 8K S35 sensor is measured at 13 stops.
    - There were some occasional motion artifacts seen within the 8K footage that was apparently coming from DPX sequences, though the projection quality looked very good.
    - On the good side, they do have 4K and 8K on camera and reference display solutions that look pretty good.

    Now again, I don't want to piss on anything too hard. Especially since this is a prototype and their camera is well over a year away, but......

    The RED Weapon 8K camera I used in February, while a prototype, was a compact 8K VistaVision plus image acquisition solution. Still a bit of work to do of course and the sensors require blood sacrifice to spit a good one out of the fiery gut of the silicon oven monster, but already insanely ahead of 3rd gen tech from one of the largest companies out there. I mean, GotG V.2 is using a few early 8Ks right this second. This is a tremendous effort put forth by RED.

    The 2/3" 8K sensor tech just isn't right at the moment, but I have a feeling that's the majority of what will be in Rio this year.

    I'm no fool though. Two four letter camera companies are coming hard to the stage. The S one will have an 8K solution late next year. The A one will have something new "eventually" next year. I'm cool with all that. It's how the whole thing works. The whole industry is evolving and catching up in various ways, but in other ways it's so odd what's skipped or left behind.

    Side critical and complimentary note. I'm on Weapon 6K and eventually going 8K, but what RED is doing with Raven and Scarlet-W has never really been done before. You need to keep in mind that the sensor found in Raven is the same tech as what's found in Weapon 8K. That's a crazy thing. While they are different sizes and resolutions, the entry level camera features the same base technology (in the brain as well) as the the premiere camera in the lineup. Sensor, processing power, and a boards are the big difference.

    This to me has approached a very "film-like" attitude towards different digital formats and I think, at least from my perspective, it's a good thing for the industry and those interested in filming with RED cameras.

    ** and no I'm not bitching about Canon stealing my graphic layouts or that other company that made the sensor size charts. *sigh*.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

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    Red Dragon
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    Great stuff Phil. Too bad you missed the Movcam stuff. It was in the 16x9 booth. Pretty impressive stuff.
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  3. #23  
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    Thanks for the writeup and pictures. I only had one day I could attend, so it's nice to see some of the things I missed in my short time there.
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  4. #24  
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    Thanks for the recap, Phil. I really enjoy seeing the 3rd party love going on here. I love my Wooden Camera leather top handle, but felt a little naughty using it. Also, the KipperTie folks are killing it, and John is such a nice dude. Wish I could have made it this year. Here's to next!
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  5. #25  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    Great stuff Phil. All I need in one thread minus flights halfway around the world!

    thanks.

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  6. #26  
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    I love this paper on immersive viewing!!! I am fanatical on understanding anything to do with the 360x180 format you developed. At nab were you able to go to the foundry booth and look at the new immersive compositing/VR tools that were just released?
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member Jeffery Anderson's Avatar
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    good read thanks
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  8. #28  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    Love this thx phil.
    Thank you Jarred. And thanks for loaning me the 8K for the interview. Literally everybody in the C hall was ogling it. I think I can safely say here that it won the Redshark Best Cinema Camera of NAB 2016.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sean R. View Post
    Great write up Phil! Thank you for all that you do!
    Great hanging out with you again!
    Great to see you too Sean. Congratulations on the belly monster!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    Great stuff Phil. Too bad you missed the Movcam stuff. It was in the 16x9 booth. Pretty impressive stuff.
    Damn. I was trying to sniff it out and likely walked by them. Really wanted to check out their rig. Great seeing you at the show Bob.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hines View Post
    Thanks for the recap, Phil. I really enjoy seeing the 3rd party love going on here. I love my Wooden Camera leather top handle, but felt a little naughty using it. Also, the KipperTie folks are killing it, and John is such a nice dude. Wish I could have made it this year. Here's to next!
    I know those feels. Sometimes along the way of camera and accessory development there are indeed rocky waters, but Ryan at WC has been busting his butt and his DSMC2 stuff is very nice. Ran into him last year while filming in New York at AbelCine when he was showing off his new mattebox. Had a nice moment and conversation there.

    John's killing it. He put a great deal of effort to enhance the concept of using "digital stocks" or "digital image processing at capture" to effect your image via his OLPFs. Halation is fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Battistella View Post
    Great stuff Phil. All I need in one thread minus flights halfway around the world!
    Heh. Thanks David. I'll trade these sore feet though for a few flights :)


    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickFaith View Post
    I love this paper on immersive viewing!!! I am fanatical on understanding anything to do with the 360x180 format you developed. At nab were you able to go to the foundry booth and look at the new immersive compositing/VR tools that were just released?
    Cheers Patrick. I feel often that I'm stuck in limbo as technology keeps bouncing to the surface sometimes. Equirectangular imaging was a big part of my life back when I was dealing more with Spherical High Dynamic Range Images and my PanOrganizer rigs. We did a bit of dome projection way back when as well, but VR ans 360 video has brought all of that back to life again. Foundry has some nice things going on. Particularly curious about the emphasis and push behind Lytro's new offering. A lot of which is a bit heavy (in camera weight, data storage, and processing) to achieve various VFX related goals.

    The emulation or tweaking of shutter angles of HFR material to adjust the motion cadence is something you can do in 2D on any camera that can shoot 120fps and beyond. Most compositors know this, if you've used Colorfront you even get a slider :) The tracking info is useful, particularly for correcting parallax errors via the optical array, but it's a fairly limited range based on the physical area size of the array itself in terms of correction. I have more questions surrounding the sensor technology, but I'll save that for much later. I think the tech has potential, but at the moment in it's current implementation it's a big ass camera that has moderate use, but interesting potential. All good though. Early days.

    One criticism regarding the PR behind the system however. When referring to pulling focus and lens operation as a limitation towards "making the movie you want to make today" that's more or less taking some of the creative decision making away from the people you actually want making those decisions, particularly the ones based on experience and feel. I understand the global message and the potential problems it can help avoid, but that in itself has already angered certain filmmakers across the community.

    I certainly am looking forward to more demonstrations and eventually productions using the tech to see where it can go.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________
    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  9. #29 A big up! 
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    Thnx a lot for this precious info! Specially for someone who missed that NAB 2016! For a moment felt like being there👍🏽
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Patrick Grossien's Avatar
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    Thank you Phil. You can't begin to grasp how great your write up is for folks like me who had to stay in NAB foreign territories.
    There's bits and pieces everywhere on the well known news sites, but yours is such a lovely summary with some nice in betweens that weren't covered at all.

    My favorite NAB feedback ! Thank you!
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