Thread: NEW TO RED? A few things to think about

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  1. #21  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    Thanks for this reminder Patrick,

    It is very true.

    David


    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickFaith View Post
    Very nice. I think one of the biggest hurdles/misunderstanding is in camera ordering since its unique in the industry. It's like a custom queue directly connected to the manufacturing process, where people get in line as RED works/researches with industry leaders(Fincher/Cameron/Scott/Jackson/etc ...). Also with this approach there is a slow ramping with early adopters/industry_leaders, where the first cameras come out in the queue slowly but there is normally a production volume bump about 6 months after that(i.e. When RED says something is available, for most people general availability is about 6 months after that).
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member bart cortright's Avatar
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    I would also add something about compression - I'm by no means an expert but from working with other cameras RED seems to have the best raw compression. Both ARRI and Black Magic's file sizes are huge. I love the flexibility of getting to adjust the ratio of compression based on the needs of the project.

    Also +1 to neat video's de-noiser. I run anything above 800ASA through it and there is little to no image degradation or loss in sharpness from it.
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member Brent G Miller Jr's Avatar
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    RAW view just blew my mind and I can see it becoming my new best friend. Thank you. I'm accustom to using waveforms but of course that's the DSLR world where what I see is for the most part what I get in post - would do me little good with R3D when viewing in REDlogfilm.

    I've also heard that the Raven can not use outside LUTs during filming; however, I am assuming that Redcolor and gamma profiles are indeed accessible in order to better visually judge a shot (apart from RAWview) while on set? I'm asking because I'm teetering between Raven and Scarlet-W.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Battistella View Post
    RAW VIEW AND HISTOGRAM ARE YOUR FRIEND


    To me, the second most important thing after looking at your monitor for exposure and composition are the:

    HISTOGRAM, RAW VIEW, GOALPOST and STOPLIGHT TOOLS

    These three tools used together will take you a long long way toward excellent exposure

    HISTOGRAM - Learn how to read one based on your scene,

    RAW VIEW - Understand that with RED this represents whiat the sensor sees at ISO 800 with a DragonColor 2 and REDlogfilm look profile. Swithcing between this and your settings will tell you a lot. Know where the RAW VIEW key is mapped and use it often
    GOAL POSTS above a certain noise. The one on the right tells you how many pixels are clipping

    STOPLIGHTS - This tells you when an R G OR B CHANNEL IS CLIPPING


    Memorize this page of the DSMC manual first.

    David
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  4. #24  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Heh. I should have my new version of the DSMC Field Ops Guide done this month, but version 1 certainly covers a lot of this in detail.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Heh. I should have my new version of the DSMC Field Ops Guide done this month, but version 1 certainly covers a lot of this in detail.
    Any rough dates on that new version? I'd be interested.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent G Miller Jr View Post
    As someone who comes from years of shooting on DSLRs, I’m a touch confused when it comes to ISO and shooting RAW. With DSLR filming, ISO is another tool to correctly expose a shot and control noise, so, am I understanding this right that I could shoot a scene on RED at an ISO of 5000 and there would no more noise in the shot, if dropped in post to ISO 400, then if the shot was natively captured on-set at ISO 400?!
    +1
    It would be nice to do that... but I dont' think you should take things for granted either.
    Light the scene, set your camera... record and if you need to change it in post... then do it.... but if you dont' have to... why even....

    Even on a tight schedule, I'd rather light and set the camera properly before I press record... you might make mistakes, but I'd rather spend 8 hours to shoot something properly (even if you run out of time and you haven't filmed everything) and spend a day to edit.... rather than to film everything improperly and spend a week to edit.

    Again, it would be nice to have a team, but pre-planning and resource alocations.... a lot of project management is more than enough to suffice.
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  7. #27  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Heaslip View Post
    Any rough dates on that new version? I'd be interested.
    End of the month-ish.
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Brent G Miller Jr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kabilen Mullaithilaga View Post
    +1
    It would be nice to do that... but I dont' think you should take things for granted either.
    Light the scene, set your camera... record and if you need to change it in post... then do it.... but if you dont' have to... why even....

    Even on a tight schedule, I'd rather light and set the camera properly before I press record... you might make mistakes, but I'd rather spend 8 hours to shoot something properly (even if you run out of time and you haven't filmed everything) and spend a day to edit.... rather than to film everything improperly and spend a week to edit.

    Again, it would be nice to have a team, but pre-planning and resource alocations.... a lot of project management is more than enough to suffice.
    Thank you; that's of course understood. My question was a hypothetical of which the answer would help me to better understand the technicalities of the R3D format and what's really going on when adjusting the ISO (purely meta data then?). I'm one that prefers to "shoot to the left" to retain more highlight data over shadows so I want to ensure the range of exposure we 'believe' we're are getting on set or in the field is what we're actually getting without any surprises in post. In the world of DSLR filming, the difference between an ISO of 400 and 800 is substantial.
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  9. #29  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent G Miller Jr View Post
    As someone who comes from years of shooting on DSLRs, Im a touch confused when it comes to ISO and shooting RAW. With DSLR filming, ISO is another tool to correctly expose a shot and control noise, so, am I understanding this right that I could shoot a scene on RED at an ISO of 5000 and there would no more noise in the shot, if dropped in post to ISO 400, then if the shot was natively captured on-set at ISO 400?!
    Thats not entirely accurate. Noise is determined by your histograms. If blacks are clipping, you'll have noise - regardless of the ISO.

    But the noise THRESHOLD for the DSCM2 cameras are far improved yes.

    Expect to see pretty clean footage btw 2000-3200 ISO on Standard and Lowlight OLPFs.

    But it will always be CLEANER when you drop the ISO to 400 later in post.

    Assuming it was correctly exposed, 400 should be whistle clean.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Brent G Miller Jr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Thats not entirely accurate.
    Thank you for the correction.
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