Thread: What is a native ISO for RED Gemini Low Light mode?

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  1. #1 What is a native ISO for RED Gemini Low Light mode? 
    Hello, i am a newbie 1AC and i am a little bit confused about Gemini Dual Sensitivity mode, what is the second native ISO of the camera first is ISO 800 in standard mode, and what is a native ISO in Low Light mode, some videos on youtube and articles says its 1600, some its 3200.
    Please can you answer my question what is a Native ISO for RED Gemini Low Light Mode?
    Thank you
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  2. #2  
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    For what it's worth, the manual states that Low Light mode is for use "in lower light conditions in which you would expose for ISO 2500 and higher." And: "RED recommends setting the ISO to the default, then adjusting the aperture, lighting, and ND filters to match." The default ISO in Low Light mode is 3200.
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Greene View Post
    For what it's worth, the manual states that Low Light mode is for use "in lower light conditions in which you would expose for ISO 2500 and higher." And: "RED recommends setting the ISO to the default, then adjusting the aperture, lighting, and ND filters to match." The default ISO in Low Light mode is 3200.
    Yes i read it in the User Guide for Gemini sensor. But why its saying in lower light conditions in which you would expose ISO 2500 and higher? If i like to expose at ISO 1600, do i need to turn on LL mode and choose 1600LL, or stay at a standard mode and also choose 1600 but in standard mode? What is better?
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  4. #4  
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    I agree, that's a confusing message. I always use LL for 1600, but I admit I haven't done a comparison.
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  5. #5  
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    I have had Gemini for about 6 months now. My default base ISO in LL mode on my gemini when I received the camera new was 1600 ISO. Since then I have added 800 ISO to the LL mode settings. Graeme mentioned in another question that was posted on a similar thread a while back that you can actually add additional ISO's in the LL mode (which I believe will go down to 800 ISO maybe even lower I forget). I have found that LL mode at 1600 ISO is definitely better than 1600 ISO in regular mode in "true low-light conditions" for producing less noise when pushing grades. If the majority of the scene is towards the lower end of the histogram (lower IRE values) and not evenly spread out between the red monitoring "goal posts" and you cannot add additional light to the scene (or maybe that's the look you are going for) to have a more balanced image, I always use LL mode now anytime I am shooting in truly "darker conditions" where there are significantly more mid-tones and shadows than highlights. Apparently, LL mode even at the lower ISO's say (800-1600) is still more ideal for lower light scenes as the camera sensor is simply more tuned to read further into the blacks and mid-tones in turn sacrificing a slight loss in highlights (or overall dynamic range). In most lowlight scenes you don't have super bright lights or are trying to expose outside a window or something where there is a super dark to bright contrast where the loss in dynamic range outweighs the gain of having less noise and color information/details in shadows and mid-tones. I found I have to lift mid-tones / pull down blacks less to have a pleasing image with less noise with LL Mode when compared to normal mode. I just feel like I get a more natural image that I don't have to hide noise by crushing blacks when compared to normal mode. My rule of thumb for my Gemini is anything above 1000 ISO I either add light or switch to LL mode and I even shoot on fast Canon Cine-primes. The image I get at 800-1000 ISO in normal mode for almost any condition is superb and once you get above that I find LL mode to be more clean. Just my experience.
    Last edited by Andrew Reese; 12-07-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Michael Lindsay's Avatar
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    1600 in LL mode is maybe a little clippy in some situations but you’ll often/mostly get way with it... I normally default to 2500 and adjust with thought and caution from there... same for normal mode (default to 800 and adjust from there)
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Aren't you trading DR if you use LL mode lower than 3200? 800LL will give you cleaner shadows but your sell 2+ stops of highlights as compared to 800standard.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Reese View Post
    I have had Gemini for about 6 months now. My default base ISO in LL mode on my gemini when I received the camera new was 1600 ISO. Since then I have added 800 ISO to the LL mode settings. Graeme mentioned in another question that was posted on a similar thread a while back that you can actually add additional ISO's in the LL mode (which I believe will go down to 800 ISO maybe even lower I forget). I have found that LL mode at 1600 ISO is definitely better than 1600 ISO in regular mode in "true low-light conditions" for producing less noise when pushing grades. If the majority of the scene is towards the lower end of the histogram (lower IRE values) and not evenly spread out between the red monitoring "goal posts" and you cannot add additional light to the scene (or maybe that's the look you are going for) to have a more balanced image, I always use LL mode now anytime I am shooting in truly "darker conditions" where there are significantly more mid-tones and shadows than highlights. Apparently, LL mode even at the lower ISO's say (800-1600) is still more ideal for lower light scenes as the camera sensor is simply more tuned to read further into the blacks and mid-tones in turn sacrificing a slight loss in highlights (or overall dynamic range). In most lowlight scenes you don't have super bright lights or are trying to expose outside a window or something where there is a super dark to bright contrast where the loss in dynamic range outweighs the gain of having less noise and color information/details in shadows and mid-tones. I found I have to lift mid-tones / pull down blacks less to have a pleasing image with less noise with LL Mode when compared to normal mode. I just feel like I get a more natural image that I don't have to hide noise by crushing blacks when compared to normal mode. My rule of thumb for my Gemini is anything above 1000 ISO I either add light or switch to LL mode and I even shoot on fast Canon Cine-primes. The image I get at 800-1000 ISO in normal mode for almost any condition is superb and once you get above that I find LL mode to be more clean. Just my experience.
    Thank you.
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    Aren't you trading DR if you use LL mode lower than 3200? 800LL will give you cleaner shadows but your sell 2+ stops of highlights as compared to 800standard.
    Your words make sense. I think the default in LL mode is 3200 that's what you can find in Gemini User Guide. But looks like here on the forum everybody use their own settings. I am agree that 800LL will give you cleaner shadows and reduce couple stops (may be 2 or even more) in DR according to highlights.
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    Aren't you trading DR if you use LL mode lower than 3200? 800LL will give you cleaner shadows but your sell 2+ stops of highlights as compared to 800standard.
    If you are shooting a dark scene, you need to protect shadows. If you are shooting a bright scene, you need to protect highlights. It's why, on Helium, we rate at 320 for dark scenes and 1280 for dark scenes. Same two-stop logic difference for Gemini for the same reason.
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