Thread: Helium + Dragon Side By Side Highlights / Colors

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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I'll be doing a fairly comprehensive review/comparison now that I'm back in LA.

    The overall key thing to understand is Helium is "better" at higher ISO Ratings than Dragon. I.e. cleaner images. However, that's not the full story. There's color differences and the more difficult to explain, pixel quality.

    Should be fun and I agree, it will be more fun once a few other things happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemalettin Sert View Post
    Please add A.. cameras and few others if you can?
    i agree!

    Phil, Will be great to do a test now with the following as we don't have the VV Dragon yet!

    1. VV Dragon
    2. Dragon
    3. S35 Helium
    4. Other major brands.

    The core of the test can be to be how the dynamic range and color science of the sensor sees the highlights and shadow fall off especially compared with other cameras (As Kemalettin pointed out!) as well and then recreate the same test setting with the updated color science on each of the sensor.
    Last edited by Asif Limbada; 10-15-2016 at 02:02 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Roberts View Post
    Because until the color science is released, the full potential of Helium is unknown. So comparing the Helium to ANYTHING until the Helium color science strikes me as unfair to Red, who has been generous to let these get out into the wild before really being DONE. That's just one guy's opinion. :)
    Before I bring a camera onto a shoot I have to have the color and response to difference situations dialed in. It's great that they've released it, in quantity at that, and given everyone such a credit, I just haven't seen a side by side with the two sensors. Over the past couple years I've gotten the Dragon sensor dialed in and I know what it can handle and what it can't. If the Helium color and dynamic range is "Beta" still then that's where it's at and we should know that.

    Just trying to make an educated decision here, and there's some that have both sensors out there, so it'd be great to see the improvements. If I'm losing more in the highlights and gaining a little in the shadows, I'd rather stay Dragon.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I'll be doing a fairly comprehensive review/comparison now that I'm back in LA.

    The overall key thing to understand is Helium is "better" at higher ISO Ratings than Dragon. I.e. cleaner images. However, that's not the full story. There's color differences and the more difficult to explain, pixel quality.

    Should be fun and I agree, it will be more fun once a few other things happen.
    Your evaluations are second to none, looking forward to it.

    If you ever have any desire to test bench a Flex4K let me know, ha.
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    You can add the new color after when its released right? So I someone was to shoot it now, it could be applied when released? Just sayin. although It might change they way they approach the test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brody_B View Post
    You can add the new color after when its released right? So I someone was to shoot it now, it could be applied when released? Just sayin. although It might change they way they approach the test.
    Yup, it can be applied later correct.

    We did a Helium test earlier, but am waiting for color science to come out...before we judge.

    Also...am now realizing we should have started by judging Helium at 1600 or 2000 iso...and Dragon at 800...to put them both at their "sweet spot".
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Brad Grimm's Avatar
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    Nothing has changed since we have been looking at the stormtroopers. The Helium looks to be about 1 stop less in Highlights. I am sure the new color science will iron this out...
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Grimm View Post
    Nothing has changed since we have been looking at the stormtroopers. The Helium looks to be about 1 stop less in Highlights. I am sure the new color science will iron this out...
    @Brad. Does color science improves the fall off, but not the DR directly I suppose, right?


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    This is depends on if there are any R3D extensions that might change what is persisted at the time of acquisition.

    I don't have any knowlege of this - just guarding against the possibility of people's time being consumed, and then and end to end image pipeline released that might necessitate a retest.

    My gut feeling at this point is the signal to noise ratio for Helium would mean it's Usable dynamic range is greater than Dragon;
    That Helium data will read Higher in the same scence that Dragon does;
    That the Dragon Clip point is being applied to the 'absolute' sensor Data in Helium (causing it to clip early);
    That the Helium sensor still needs to have readings for 'Zero' (so low bits are still required);
    ... and that when Helium CS makes it out of the door, the CLIP point will change in the recorded data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brody_B View Post
    You can add the new color after when its released right? So I someone was to shoot it now, it could be applied when released? Just sayin. although It might change they way they approach the test.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Brad Grimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asif Limbada View Post
    @Brad. Does color science improves the fall off, but not the DR directly I suppose, right?
    Jarred mentioned somewhere that what we are talking about will be irrelevant when the new color and processing pipeline are released... so until then its all speculation.. and wrong at that :)
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