Thread: 4K Projectors in 2017

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  1. #51  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Based on the above questions - I actually think that SONY may be on the right track.

    1) They have created modular screens that (sort of like Lego) can be used to make a seamless wall.
    Each module is physically manageable, only handling 360x360 pixels.

    2) Their research found that when the eye sees 'pin pricks' of light, the there is much larger 'halo' perceived as a pixel by people.
    Sony's pixels in each module are 99% pure light-absorbing black, with a miniscule light emitting area that only uses 1% of the central pixel area.
    The result is very high contrast in high ambient light environments.

    3) Their current modules Do currently have fans in them (ie not completely silent). The pinpricks of light are also not yet P3+ gamut.

    Having only used projectors in my household for almost two decades - It may well be that my next dream system is one not unlike what Sony are developing.

    AJ
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  2. #52  
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    Antony, welcome. Glad to hear your input.

    THX certifications have it. Let us be real, if one is serious, 120-200 inch. Size at distance and focusing strain all play a part in viewing enjoyment. Big heads look 'awesome' effect.

    60 inch is OK for editing and viewing, but substandard

    They are making multiple panel sets. You literally take the small panels in and assemble seamless looking.

    There are more screen types, see my touch table thread.

    The 3M screen used on the Laservue TV is one of the best. Combined with black primary filtering and quantum dit color filtering/projection there you have it. LG is up to something with nanocells reducing the color frequencies to the target ones. However, I'm thinking about an alternative to these.

    Yes you can design a roll up hangable OLED, but they have drastically reduced color gamut, and show me your mountable 200 inch oled. Oled is not currently the best natch in primaries for large sets. Having wider gamut primaries will dim current large oled. You can use blue with QD color filter painted on, as I previously put out there, now a real contemplation in industry. But, there is a 100% QE electro luminance product. If that is combined in blue with QD color and hdr over a long life cheap panel , you may gave a low heat oled. But I don't know the current life span fragility and specs if these.

    The heating of black back lit screen is overcomable.

    The tint on oled, you are right, some people could barely believe I think when I reported they were not true black because of this.
    Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.

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  3. #53  
    Senior Member Michael Moreno's Avatar
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    Looking to buy a greater than 65' 4K TV monitor

    Please let me know all your favorite/reasonable 80' and up Flat screen options are

    This article helped me leave the idea of getting a projector behind for a lot of reasons.

    Appreciate you saving me the time of hunting down a big screen for my large studio, as scrolling through articles and settings is defeating.

    Going to be using it for a second/main computer monitor mostly and a tv/movie night often..

    Very much appreciated
    All my Dreams will be "Shot on Red"
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  4. #54 Inside the tube 
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    FWIW, I have an idea for a hybrid projection system. The "screen" comes on a roll (or is painted a wall), is impregnated with phosphors and has a low voltage supplied. The projector uses wavelengths that excite the phosphors on the screen to produce the image. Think of an old cathode ray tube with an electron gun, only instead of the gun hitting the phosphors on the inside surface of the tube, the "gun" is hitting the phosphors from in front. This would allow the projector to be optimized for pinpoint accuracy using wavelengths that could be outside the visible spectrum. There would be no need to get a color accurate, high intensity image out of the projector as the screen phosphors would be generating the viewable image. Essentially you would map the color and brightness response of the phosphors to create a LUT that you would use to determine the output of each "pixel" produced by the projector.

    Thin, flexible screen materials that can also address individual pixels via internal signal distribution is a compelling topology. That said, there are a number of issues that make such a design problematic to manufacture. Laser projection onto a reflective screen has great potential, but, until new methods are developed, the inherent physics of lasers require various kludges to avoid sparkles/color shifts/etc. My hybrid concept puts the color accuracy piece in the realm of the reactive phosphors, not the projected light engine. By freeing the projector from having to generate a finely balanced color gamut in the visible range, you could manage the projected image to suit the phosphor response instead.

    As an example, FM radio transmission uses the 88-108MHz band for broadcasting even though humans can't hear in that range. The voice of the DJ is "re-mapped" into a different scale, sent out, then the receiver decodes that signal and plays it for the listener at the original frequency of the DJ's voice. This technique allows broadcasters to use a portion of the electro-magnetic spectrum conducive to long distance transmission, something 20-20,000Hz (nominal human hearing range) is not good for.

    I'm suggesting that by looking back at previous technologies and adapting them, there might be a way to create large display tech that avoids the pitfalls of current solutions. To wit, glass panels get too large and heavy above 80", projection that uses passive reflective screens requires very low ambient light and precise, powerful light engines.

    Cheers - #19
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  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moreno View Post
    Looking to buy a greater than 65' 4K TV monitor

    Please let me know all your favorite/reasonable 80' and up Flat screen options are

    This article helped me leave the idea of getting a projector behind for a lot of reasons.

    Appreciate you saving me the time of hunting down a big screen for my large studio, as scrolling through articles and settings is defeating.

    Going to be using it for a second/main computer monitor mostly and a tv/movie night often..

    Very much appreciated
    I would think you could probably find a grading one under a few hundred thousand (note, if you don't like this answer don't ask it on post subforum for the colorist to answer. Maybe they might like to haveba piece if the sun in their grading rooms to render and grade NASA footage of the sun :) ).

    Your options are probably limited. LG OLED and Panasonic are the only ones to get serious look ins as TV's, and next year, whenever displays that are set against rec2020 relative are made, you might like to change it. Of these two, only LG does a larger display in OLED that gangs on the wall. Recent review our there. But seriously, look at the THX site for certified displays (technicolor is doing stuff too). TCL and others keep threatening to certify their displays, and also do a 90%+ rec2020 display for sometime. That sort of brand may do a 84 inch. Some Chinese companies at $5k nearly 4 tears ago. LG has been trying to get companies like changhong and other Chinese makers on board for nano cell displays.

    LG Nano cell, and Samsung QLed I don't known yet what the gamut figures, but top of the line sets are worth a look.

    Panasonic has not upgraded their 900/902 series yet. They announced they had a twin shutter pixel which produces about the next best black to OLED, but it is unknown if they will release another 900 series with that thus year, at all. My guess is it will look better than the greyish blacks at my local cinema, which beg, buy a TV for better viewing.

    However, the real thing to look out for, is color gamut volume. Color gamut percentages are often quoted at a certain percentage of brightness, but maybe a lot less at other levels. Even LG last year had issues at low brightness details. My guess fixed up, but Panasonic went the full way on their new top OLED, which they have got colorists involved to make it grading worthy. Actually, do they have a 75 inch.

    Unless you are viewing in darkness ambient light can be picked up by by oled and tint them. But the top Panasonic, and I think maybe LG, have a filter this year to deal with it. If you want to impress in HDR, get a HDR ready one.
    Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.

    Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.

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  6. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    FWIW, I have an idea for a hybrid projection system. The "screen" comes on a roll (or is painted a wall), is impregnated with phosphors and has a low voltage supplied. The projector uses wavelengths that excite the phosphors on the screen to produce the image. Think of an old cathode ray tube with an electron gun, only instead of the gun hitting the phosphors on the inside surface of the tube, the "gun" is hitting the phosphors from in front. This would allow the projector to be optimized for pinpoint accuracy using wavelengths that could be outside the visible spectrum. There would be no need to get a color accurate, high intensity image out of the projector as the screen phosphors would be generating the viewable image. Essentially you would map the color and brightness response of the phosphors to create a LUT that you would use to determine the output of each "pixel" produced by the projector.

    Thin, flexible screen materials that can also address individual pixels via internal signal distribution is a compelling topology. That said, there are a number of issues that make such a design problematic to manufacture. Laser projection onto a reflective screen has great potential, but, until new methods are developed, the inherent physics of lasers require various kludges to avoid sparkles/color shifts/etc. My hybrid concept puts the color accuracy piece in the realm of the reactive phosphors, not the projected light engine. By freeing the projector from having to generate a finely balanced color gamut in the visible range, you could manage the projected image to suit the phosphor response instead.

    As an example, FM radio transmission uses the 88-108MHz band for broadcasting even though humans can't hear in that range. The voice of the DJ is "re-mapped" into a different scale, sent out, then the receiver decodes that signal and plays it for the listener at the original frequency of the DJ's voice. This technique allows broadcasters to use a portion of the electro-magnetic spectrum conducive to long distance transmission, something 20-20,000Hz (nominal human hearing range) is not good for.

    I'm suggesting that by looking back at previous technologies and adapting them, there might be a way to create large display tech that avoids the pitfalls of current solutions. To wit, glass panels get too large and heavy above 80", projection that uses passive reflective screens requires very low ambient light and precise, powerful light engines.

    Cheers - #19
    Yeah, sounds like what I wanted to do two decades ago, except the remapping, which I might have considered. You get a problem with ambient light. The energy distribution of the light across the screen has to be calibrated adequately.

    Again, combined with the dirt of greyish black filtered screen that Sony nand LG Hector used, but more modern and blacker, could he good, but the issue happens that if you have that, do you really need those not black phosphors which could he replaced by mat white.

    Still, the 3M rear projection material is probably good.
    Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.

    Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.

    Inferiorly superior (humbleness) rather than superiorly inferior (arrogance). -
    Reputation is something the unwise apply. But integrity is what the wise apply.
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  7. #57  
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    Yes, there are issues with roll up screens, as there are with even normal OLED over area. Don't know how well they are with this now though. However, I expect it will be overcome, and there is a supper easy solution more rigid ones.
    Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.

    Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.

    Inferiorly superior (humbleness) rather than superiorly inferior (arrogance). -
    Reputation is something the unwise apply. But integrity is what the wise apply.
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  8. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moreno View Post
    Looking to buy a greater than 65' 4K TV monitor

    Please let me know all your favorite/reasonable 80' and up Flat screen options are

    This article helped me leave the idea of getting a projector behind for a lot of reasons.

    Appreciate you saving me the time of hunting down a big screen for my large studio, as scrolling through articles and settings is defeating.

    Going to be using it for a second/main computer monitor mostly and a tv/movie night often..

    Very much appreciated
    Forgot, there is a new microled system, 0.5mm per pixel maybe, that you can get in 40inch segments and assemble into larger displays. But I don't know the performance accuracy. Led displays I have seen tend to look woeful from led deviations etc, but that is then, what they are like now, I don't know.
    Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.

    Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.

    Inferiorly superior (humbleness) rather than superiorly inferior (arrogance). -
    Reputation is something the unwise apply. But integrity is what the wise apply.
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  9. #59  
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    Blair, your stuff, how about a cheap portable recorded with filming, camera and lens control that you can attach camera heads too?
    Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.

    Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.

    Inferiorly superior (humbleness) rather than superiorly inferior (arrogance). -
    Reputation is something the unwise apply. But integrity is what the wise apply.
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  10. #60  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Wayne - you lost me there buddy. Not sure what you're asking exactly.

    My phosphor impregnated screen excited by laser is an attempt to play to the strengths of existing technologies, while avoiding some of the more difficult challenges. If phosphors can be selected, or created from raw materials, that would have precise response characteristics I think my concept could work well. The laser output could live well beyond the visible spectrum with a particular laser wavelength causing a particular phosphor wavelength to be generated at the screen. In theory, such a system could display any color precisely, it wouldn't even have to use R/G/B mixing.

    It's just a concept, what it would take to manufacture phosphors with such specific response characteristics is unknown. I also don't know what it would take to hold the electrons in a neutral state, excite them precisely and have them return to a null state. My theory is based on the electron gun/cathode ray tube coated with phosphors display system adapted for front projection. The practicality of such an approach is an open question, to say the least. If I was running R&D for a CE company interested in the large display market, I'd certainly assign some folks to investigate what it would take.

    Cheers - #19
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