Thread: Using RED for live events

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  1. #1 Using RED for live events 
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    Hey guys, I was curious if anyone has any experience or could point me in the right direction of someone that has used RED in a live situation? I was looking at Dragons, redcast and the Nipros stuff. Any information would be really appreciated. Thanks.
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  2. #2  
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    Hi Zachary,

    Yeah quite a bit. Drop me an email:

    cogartlit@yahoo.co.uk

    Cheers

    Craig Lees
    UK
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  3. #3  
    Red Savant Steve Gibby's Avatar
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    I pioneered using Red cameras for live events way back in 2009 and 2010. I was a DP in March 2009 for a ten Red One, three hour live documentary featuring the classic rock band Journey: Live in Manila (Palladia/VH1). That production was the world's first multiple Red camera live event. Someone else did a multiple Red camera live event featuring Green Day later in 2009. Here's a link to an article I wrote for TV Technology explaining how the event was produced: https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/re...ey39-to-manila

    In February 2010 I was again a DP for a six Red One camera, two hour live event production in Seattle featuring the classic rock band Heart: Night at Sky Church (Palladia, VH1)

    I haven't done any multiple Red camera live events since those two events, but obviously those kinds of events are way easier to do with the current current Red cameras, which have many more features that enable live event production than the Red One cameras had.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    I had the pleasure of working with Gibby on the Manila/Journey and Seattle/Heart shoots. SMPTE compliant SDI outputs from the cameras made using them for live events straightforward. We were limited to 1080HD signal, but that was all the rest of the contemporary infrastructure could support anyway.

    RED did develop a "Broadcast" module for DSMC1 that supported UHD over SMPTE fiber. No idea how many were sold. At the time, DSMC2 was just a few months away so I chose to wait for the next generation module (too short of a time period for ROI). Sadly, RED never did bring a DSMC2 "Broadcast" module to market. No inside knowledge, but the logical assumption would be that they sold so few of the DSMC1 "Broadcast" modules that the NRE/anticipated unit volume ratio didn't make sense.

    Komodo is a different animal, starting with the 12G UHD/4K SDI tap. It's also a S35 target, which is a better fit for live work - more lens options, more DoF, easier to match with other cameras, etc. DSMC3 specs are unknown at this time, but at the very least I expect a 12G UHD/4K SDI spigot and the capacity to window the sensor as needed to support popular lens options.

    I would love to see a SMPTE fiber based module with return video, comms, tally, etc developed for Komodo and DSMC3 to facilitate hardwired field production scenarios. That said, even if such a device is not on RED's roadmap, 12G SDI opens the door to multicam use cases at UHD resolution.

    Cheers - #19
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  5. #5  
    Red Savant Steve Gibby's Avatar
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    Hey Blair - great to hear from you! Those Journey and Heart productions were challenging but also way fun. You did some excellent stage front camera work on those gigs. For Journey the live output from the 10 Red One cameras was as you said 1080 via SDI, but that was just for the giant stage back iMag screen live feed for the audience (about 30,000 people). The linear documentary was recorded to on-camera Red Drives in 4k/29.97, edited and mastered in 4k/29.97, then downsampled to 1080 for airing on Palladia and VH1. For the 6 Red One camera Heart production we followed that same path.

    Thanks for those very accurate observations on DSMC1, DSMC2, Komodo, and your current wish list - I second all of that!

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  6. #6  
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    The DSMC1 broadcast module would've sold like hotcakes for $1k and if it was over one 4k SDI connection; 4k/60p output, LUT support, proper IO, ... Alas, they were like ~$7k USD, and pretty sure they used 4xSDI connections to comprise the single 4k output and they only supported DSMC1 Dragon (not MX). Like the Meisler module, REDray, REDmote, and RED Batteries before it (and Redvolt-Vs and Hydrogen after it), it very quickly ceased to exist. That being said, here we are in 2020 and a 1080p live-stream is still the standard...

    RUser Glen Powel has used his REDs for live streaming/webcamming (prior to their sensors getting blown out). Using an HDMI-to-USB adapter you can pretty much intake any camera. Compatibility is dependent on the adapter and what apps recognize it (zoom, Skype, YouTube, OBS, etc.). Actually, I think Scott did when he hosted the Komodo livestream... and all the RED Solidarity Series used multiple RED streams over YouTube Livestream... Maybe Jonathan Petts and those guys can chime in and give you the run-down of their set up.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 10-14-2020 at 04:55 PM.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Curtis boggs's Avatar
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    Worked a series of live stream concerts for a local studio.
    Used Red Helium to SDI 1080.

    Was a multicam show and unfortunately they had
    other ops w their own gear, some of witch should have been
    retired. I was just op, tried to help color match but some cameras
    just couldn’t be helped.
    Of course the Red looked fantastic:-)

    The Komodo seems like it’ll be great for live shows.
    I haven’t had the opportunity to use my Komodo on a live show yet.
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  8. #8 SDI, Triax, Fiber - Oh My 
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    SDI is fine if the runs aren't too long and the cables are high quality. In many of the live shows I've worked, they also expect to have video return - so you can see what the current live shot is and not duplicate it (3 cameras with medium close ups of the same person will have the director cursing but quick). They also prefer to have comms to the ops over the same triax run rather than pulling a separate cable.
    In my experience, with 12G SDI, anything over 100' is sketchy and DAs to extend that typically require their own power supply and present another potential point of failure.
    IMO, a 2160/60P fiber solution, with the headroom to carry 8K/60P with next gen chipsets, would be the bomb diggity.

    Cheers - #19
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Assuming your using DSMC1/2 cameras there can be some issues with RED's 1080P when combining with other cameras that only support 1080i. A few years ago we did a combo shoot with some REDs and the satellite truck couldn't take the RED 1080p - had to use a Teranex to convert to a signal the sat truck could use.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    Assuming your using DSMC1/2 cameras there can be some issues with RED's 1080P when combining with other cameras that only support 1080i. A few years ago we did a combo shoot with some REDs and the satellite truck couldn't take the RED 1080p - had to use a Teranex to convert to a signal the sat truck could use.
    This is good to know/not something you'd think about... But can't you select 1080i as the SDI/HDMI output on the RED? I know you can select Hz and 1080/720... And I coulda sworn interlaced and progressive were options...
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