Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Helium IPP2 Highlight Test - Huge improvement

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  1. #21  
    Is the candle light difference the difference between luts in resolve and math colortransformation in the new rcxp beta?
    Björn Benckert
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Lochert View Post
    This really does seem like the difference between 'NEVER clip your highlights" to "It's okay to blow some stuff out if you have to."
    Exactly right! As image makers, we should have that choice. imagine walking through a gallery and hearing "that painting sucks 'cause the artist used white. CLIPPING!"

    I won't be afraid of skies or metalic-pings any more because the rolloff is so gorgeous.
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member Anthony Berenato Jr's Avatar
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    It's really nice to see results like this after so many people jumped to conclusions between NFS and the Alexa crowd. Even some of us were ultimately confused, with hope that IPP2 would bring the sensor / color calibration needed to balance things out.

    With anticipation for what's possible in the future... this was exciting to see. Great work between Graeme and the RED team all around. Can't wait for full implementation, and my Helium camera ! :)
    Anthony Berenato Jr.
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  4. #24  
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    This is really remarkable! I didn't really believe this until I downloaded the files and tried it myself. I was pretty happy with the results I was getting just in RedCine-X and adjusting the RAW and then using a simple CDL to bring the colour back.

    However, as amazed as I am by how much extra we can get from the sensor, I'm also frustrated by how unintuitive it is get that extra latitude. A white balance of 4000K gives me the right colour for the scene I'm shooting, I shouldn't have to set the white balance to 1800K and then grade the colour back just to get the latitude that the sensor is capable of.

    Of course, then this is the beauty of shooting RAW. I trust RED are going to be working overtime to make it easy and intuitive to always get the full latitude available and by shooting RAW now it will be easy for people to reprocess their footage and get more out of it.
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  5. #25  
    We have a helium blizzard at the office. One TV drama series where they shot 3 cameras for 100 and some days. And then quite a few commercials shot on helium and the colorist that we got on these jobs used to hate red, no joke. But now when we served him nicely prepared resolve projects with everything lined up from trimmed r3d´s with the lates IPP2 luts and all the settings made so it really slides well on his mac setup he really have gone trough the conversion phase.

    Basically he went from "I hate red" to saying things like "this is the first time ever I enjoyed grading digital, it´s like grading film again, it even looks better and I can push further" No joke. Then dropping comments like: "so if this is out there why are people using anything else?". Then talking amazed about the skin textures, and the colors being so accurate straight of the bat.

    I wish I could just show it all but as always with these things it´s about 6 month before things is aloud in the open. Any how Ipp2 and helium is where it´s at no doubt.
    Björn Benckert
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Winzar View Post
    This is really remarkable! I didn't really believe this until I downloaded the files and tried it myself. I was pretty happy with the results I was getting just in RedCine-X and adjusting the RAW and then using a simple CDL to bring the colour back.

    However, as amazed as I am by how much extra we can get from the sensor, I'm also frustrated by how unintuitive it is get that extra latitude. A white balance of 4000K gives me the right colour for the scene I'm shooting, I shouldn't have to set the white balance to 1800K and then grade the colour back just to get the latitude that the sensor is capable of.

    Of course, then this is the beauty of shooting RAW. I trust RED are going to be working overtime to make it easy and intuitive to always get the full latitude available and by shooting RAW now it will be easy for people to reprocess their footage and get more out of it.
    Good points Sam. I agree that it was strange to find the best rolloff at 1800 kelvin, but I'm convinced it had to do with the light on that shot, and possibly the black balance. Every other scene I tested had the best apparent rolloff at "normal" col temps (4000-6000 kelvin). It would b great to test some more images (especially daylight) but frankly I can't find anything online that's that over-exposed. You have to work hard to blow-out a face that much :)

    I come from the film world, so I'm not too fazed by alt-passes. Back then it was normal to get a sky pass to mix in comp. In fact, that's the way I usually grade HDR-X (processing the A & X channel separately, adding motion blur to the X, then mixing in comp).
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    But now when we served him nicely prepared resolve projects with everything lined up from trimmed r3d´s with the lates IPP2 luts...
    That's great! Can I ask what colour space / gamma was used when debayering? Was it RWG/Log3G10? Or was this pre-IPP2?
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    This is huge!
    Game changer for Dragon and Alev users!

    Is Ipp2 only available on Helium sensor?
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Boothby View Post
    Good points Sam. I agree that it was strange to find the best rolloff at 1800 kelvin, but I'm convinced it had to do with the light on that shot, and possibly the black balance. Every other scene I tested had the best apparent rolloff at "normal" col temps (4000-6000 kelvin). It would b great to test some more images (especially daylight) but frankly I can't find anything online that's that over-exposed. You have to work hard to blow-out a face that much :)
    The thing that really bemused me was when I used the wider shots from these tests that featured a grey cards and a colour chart. If I white balanced off the grey chip I got a colour balance of around 2600K and the side of his face still looked horrible. But if I went to 1800 as you did I got great results. Just the fact that going off the conventional wisdom of balancing off the grey card didn't give the best results is what is so confusing. If you are using a workflow where you transcoding to DPX or other formats, most of this would be hidden away, because even if you gave everything a neutral white balance, it doesn't look like it would still give you the best starting point for a grade. I just imagine if I was in a live concert situation with multiple coloured lighting and one white balance would give me extra detail in warm lights but another white balance would give me extra detail in cool lights.

    Of course, the most exciting thing is that the detail is all there in the RAW! I have faith RED will make this easy for everyone to unlock. Imagine the Helium IPP2 talk if the NoFilmSchool tests had been published with your results! Credit must be giving to NoFilmSchool for publishing the RAW files with the test
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  10. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Winzar View Post
    The thing that really bemused me was when I used the wider shots from these tests that featured a grey cards and a colour chart. If I white balanced off the grey chip I got a colour balance of around 2600K and the side of his face still looked horrible. But if I went to 1800 as you did I got great results. Just the fact that going off the conventional wisdom of balancing off the grey card didn't give the best results is what is so confusing. If you are using a workflow where you transcoding to DPX or other formats, most of this would be hidden away, because even if you gave everything a neutral white balance, it doesn't look like it would still give you the best starting point for a grade. I just imagine if I was in a live concert situation with multiple coloured lighting and one white balance would give me extra detail in warm lights but another white balance would give me extra detail in cool lights.

    Of course, the most exciting thing is that the detail is all there in the RAW! I have faith RED will make this easy for everyone to unlock. Imagine the Helium IPP2 talk if the NoFilmSchool tests had been published with your results! Credit must be giving to NoFilmSchool for publishing the RAW files with the test
    Agreed. Perhaps this is why IPP2 is still in Beta? All I know is that I don't see this strangeness on any other shots I have (or have downloaded). Also, remember that the face was essentially blown to hell, so it's not like this is a regular occurrence. Personally, I'd prefer to have access to an extra 1-1.5 stops of highlight control even if I have to dig to get it. Anyway, I'll keep testing. If anyone has any bracketed (and totally overexposed) R3Ds let me know!
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