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  1. #21  
    Senior Member Ulf Krentz's Avatar
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    Many good thought already pointed out regarding the technical side. Not sure I see your point. Shooting stills with RED is just another tool in the box. I would never expect the "image quality" to be on par with a medium format digital back. That said, we did a shot where we used a medium format camera with strobe, than changed the whole lighting to HMI (more or less exactly matching), shot with a Canon 5DSR and also produced some motion clips with a RED Dragon to extract stills from it. All shots were presented on contact sheets and guess what, the client picked most of the shots from RED. The pure resolution and "image quality" was definitely not superior but the overall facial expression and feeling to the image made the difference. I love this approach for some of my work but I´d not expect it to ever replace a stills workflow whenever it will be needed.
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  #22  
    Also, use the new REDCine-X IPP2 beta which has a sharper demosaic.

    Graeme
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  3. #23  
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    Graeme any idea when this will move from the beta stage so other programs can implement IPP2 correctly?
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  #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Anton Esteban View Post
    Graeme any idea when this will move from the beta stage so other programs can implement IPP2 correctly?
    It's important to go through the beta process. We're working on moving from beta to release as soon as we can.

    Graeme
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  5. #25  
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    If you're shooting for stills don't go below 120-250 unless you have to. Go well above it.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    Just a quick one. I think all feedback is valid and will make the images better, but realistically I cannot imagine that you could get the same quality as a Phase One. The sensor is just so much larger on a medium format. It would still of course be nice to see how close the Helium could get. I would try a sharper lens like maybe Canon 100 2.8 and use it at f5.6 for example.
    Interesting thread!
    /Andreas
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan_H_Banks View Post
    I know the absolute best way to get acquainted with something like this is to do lots of testing, but any jumping off tips/tricks/guides you might be able to share?
    Lanczos and you are never that far off from optimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasOberg View Post
    Just a quick one. I think all feedback is valid and will make the images better, but realistically I cannot imagine that you could get the same quality as a Phase One. The sensor is just so much larger on a medium format. It would still of course be nice to see how close the Helium could get. I would try a sharper lens like maybe Canon 100 2.8 and use it at f5.6 for example.
    Interesting thread!
    /Andreas

    Yes, regarding sensor size, the bigger the sensor the less important is the quality of the glas. So the only fair comparison is to compare with the same same lens and the same amount of sensor area. As soon as something else is done you simply compare lenses and a lot of other things and not so much looking at the sensors. But sure for one that want to compare two cameras against each other and just pick the best one for a given shot. Then aim and shoot somewhat similar framings and pick the one thats liked more and yes the look of Phase One should be difficult to match as the sensor is simply so much bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    60 FPS and 180 degree shutter is nice for motion but still not sharp enough for stills. Motion blur is still going to be an issue. F1.4 is also not ideal for sharp photos. Shot F5.6 at least with higher shutter and who'll see a big improvement.
    Also helium at 60fps is rather compressed. If you only aim for stills. It´s preferred to go down in frame rate to 12fps or such and short shutter angle (forgot what number allows highest possible bit rate per frame) Could be possible that going even lower and using HDRx is preferred. As the high frame count does not happen without rased compression.

    Now if you shoot low iso the compressions will not hurt much, but if there is a lot of dynamic in the lightning or if you are slightly under exposed then the compressions will show quite a bit when digital gain / iso is lifted.
    Björn Benckert
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Thai Christen's Avatar
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    In my earlier days as a portrait and commercial photographer I shot most exclusively on medium format using my beloved Hasselblad V and Leaf 28MB Digital Back. Then I bought into Mamiya Leaf Credo System with 50MB Digital Back and the new Schneider Kreuznach LS lenses (basically same like Phase One Q1).

    What I can tell based on my experience, when it comes to sharp and crisp stills, there are three things (in this order):
    1. Lens FOV and shutter speed used
    2. How well I nail focus
    3. ISO used

    When I shoot handheld and manual focus (AF never worked for me on medium format system, it just sucks), I get about the same sharpness , crispiness and detail out of my EpicW 8K and Leica-R 60 Macro compared to the file from my Leaf 50MB and Schneider Kreuznach LS. Hit rate is about the same too, which depends on how fast the subject is moving.
    The only time when my Medium Format System will yield better results is when I use strobes.
    But other than that, I prefer the files from my EpicW, especially with IPP2. Better highlight roll off, more DR, and nicer texture.
    Last edited by Thai Christen; 07-17-2017 at 02:32 AM. Reason: Added some info, typos
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  9. #29  
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    Thank you all for helping me on my quest. The various comments on here have definitely allowed me to make things better. This community is wonderful. I have been struggling with the concept of getting stills going for years. I struggled with my Epic Dragon and gave up and I've only recently after seeing all the dxo mark brouhaha decided to try this again seriously with my Weapon Helium. Thanks to all the helpful comments I am definitely getting closer.

    First off, I did install IPP2 and it appears to me that IPP2 does absolutely amazing things. I am shocked that the world is relatively silent about this. It would appear that the IPP2 software upgrade on the Weapon Helium is the equivalent of buying an entirely new ($50k) camera... and it is free.

    Now one huge problem... I am not sure what I am suppose to do about the compression. Shooting at compression level 2:1 requires the frame rate to be reduced to a low number. When the frame rate is set to something like 5 FPS then it becomes very difficult to find focus. In fact in general I would say finding focus even at a higher frame rate is a more difficult than it should be. Gotta zoom in and out and whatnot. Is it just me or is finding focus on an electronic screen suppose to be that much harder than through an optical mechanism? Needless to say autofocus is only somewhat useful.

    One way I've tried to get around this is to use the Red Code burst feature to try to have the camera set at 24 FPS and then record at 2:1 ... however the shutter in that mode (and all the still modes) is a little wonky. The only time I feel that I can get consistent results with the shutter going off is when I am continuous record. I do understand that shutter lag is a part of life but the problem is not just the lag, it's the inconsistency in the lag. Sometimes it's just last but every fifth push it's like 3X the lag. So back to continuous record for me I guess.

    I will work at this some more when I have time but overall I am still, not satisfied, LOL. I am however, in a better position. Thanks again and I will keep working on this when I have time.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Marcus Friedlander's Avatar
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    For focus issues, I would suggest trying out edge focus. It's been a lifesaver for me.

    The other option is to hire a 1st AC and get a wireless follow focus for your lens. I know you are shooting stills, but the workflow is still film-ish, so maybe a solid 1st AC is the solution to your focus problems.
    Cheers,

    Marcus Ian Friedlander





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