Build 16v3.2.1 sync w/DIVA & 16G CF!

[araudio]

Thanks again for taking the time to do the test and sharing. Used the same set up for RED, FOSTEX PD-606 and SB-2 and had great results too at 24 fps. Video post said sync happened.

[Jose Luis Diaz]

We have done many, many tests and always we get sound a head of image a variable amount of time ranging from a few miliseconds to more than one frame. The average would be sound 1 frame a head than image.
The tests we have done was always at true 24fps with a TC of 24fps. (no 23.976fps)
FCP is version 6.0.3.
Sound recorder is Sound Devices 744 with firmware 2.40.
During shooting we fed the same audio signal to 744 and to RED.
After we ingest both (image with its "guide track" and sound recorded into 744) in FCP and merging clips (sound and image) sound from 744 was always that variable amount of time a head of image.
The same results were got being master TC camera, sound recorder or Slate.
No trilevel generator were used.
We could not get the precission seen in the image Mark L. Pederson from Offhollywood Studios shown in #5 post in this thread (page 1).
We suspect that Red doesn't have its shutter sincronized with the start of TC frame.
Any one had this problem?
Thanks.

José Luis

[Stuart English]

A few questions that will help get an answer to this issue...

What firmware Build and version number are you using on the camera ?

Was the camera's audio track sound in sync with the video, or was it in sync with the Sound Devices unit, or neither?

Are we certain that your version of FCP is able to run in true 24.00, and if it is, are you certain that it was running in true 24.00?

[Jose Luis Diaz]

Thanks Stuart for answering so fast.

a) Firmware build 16 version number (3.2.5).
b) Yes, camera's audio track sound was in sync with video. Sound Devices' audio was always around a frame ahead of image.
c) Actually, I'm a sound guy. I'm not that familiar with FCP. But I saw what the FCP assistant did. And he chose 24fps in sequence settings. Not 23.976 that was another option. So I guess FCP v 6.0.3 (the last one is 6.0.4) is able to work at 24 fps and 23.976 fps as well. And I'm certain that it WAS running in true 24fps.
But it is hard to be certain and conclusive to your question. In USA everybody says 24 fps meaning 23.976 fs. So a google search will return many confusing results.

Thanks again, Stuart.

José Luis

[Sound Sorcerer]

Maybe your Slate is drifting, if you're using a Denecke Slate take it to get tuned, if using an Ambient slate you can fine tune it with a ACC-501 controller... Also the Denecke slate has a 1 frame UP function, make sure is disabled.
You can also download Wave Agent from the Sound Devices site and compare if timecode on file's metadata are the same to those on the slate.

[Jose Luis Diaz]

Thanks Sound Sorcerer for your answer.
We got that out of sync (arround 1 frame) just connecting the camera TC out to 744 TC in. Without any slate.
If we change that flow of TC, 744 is master and Red is slave, a cable from 744 TC out to Red TC in, we didn't get accurancy. Always around 1 frame sound is ahead when we import and merge clips in FCP.
Wave Agent say the correct TC.
Also in FCP the assistant show me that time code of image and sound are equal: Same TC in both image and sound. BUT the clap in sound is one frame ahead of the slate in image.
One posibility I'm thinking is that Red's shutter is not sincronized with TC either generated or readed by Red.
Did any of you try to shoot in True 24, not 23.976?
Did any of you detected any out of sync like we did?
Ah! There is no drift into the takes we have shot. I mean, the lenght of each shot we recorded was of 2 minutes. One clap at the begining and another one at the end of the shot. If the first clap in 1 frame ahead of image the last one is also 1 frame ahead.

Thanks for your help and time dedicated to my problem.

José Luis

[Stuart English]

One posibility I'm thinking is that Red's shutter is not sincronized with TC either generated or readed by Red.

That could be an issue, is the RED ONE video genlocked as well as receiving external timecode?

[Layy Long]

Stuart,

I am gearing up for a Red show in Shreveport La.

I am the sound mixer recording on a Zaxcom Deva, running TC at 23.976, jamming to ambient lockit boxes and showing Denecke ts-3 slates.

In our test running 2 cams in c-jam on the cameras and genlocked. 1 Camera was dead on frame accurate and the other camera was jerky sometimes ahead sometimes behind. Do you think this could be solved by tuning the lockit boxes with the Ambient controller?

TIA,

Larry Long

[blacker]

very helpful !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanx much!! god bless you

[blacker]

Thanks Stuart for answering so fast.

a) Firmware build 16 version number (3.2.5).
b) Yes, camera's audio track sound was in sync with video. Sound Devices' audio was always around a frame ahead of image.
c) Actually, I'm a sound guy. I'm not that familiar with FCP. But I saw what the FCP assistant did. And he chose 24fps in sequence settings. Not 23.976 that was another option. So I guess FCP v 6.0.3 (the last one is 6.0.4) is able to work at 24 fps and 23.976 fps as well. And I'm certain that it WAS running in true 24fps.
But it is hard to be certain and conclusive to your question. In USA everybody says 24 fps meaning 23.976 fs. So a google search will return many confusing results.

Thanks again, Stuart.

José Luis

my god !..."In USA everybody says 24 fps meaning 23.976 fs. So a google search will return many confusing results."

so... I don't know 24fps is it meaning 23.976 fs in China..

btw.. can I use fostex fr-2 recorder to link the RED, what time code is need to chose..

thanx.