Thread: Ideal temperature ? 35C? 40C? 42C?

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  1. #51  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    FAN ALGORITHMS - Thoughts

    +) The RED SDK : Camera Sensor temperature : Resolution of 1.0 deg C.

    If this is stored internally with greater resolution - then the ADAPTIVE 'hunting' (which steers like a canal boat hitting the sides before changing direction!) - would allow the adaptive algorithm to be (say) +-0.1c rather then +-0.5c

    If there was a special 'aggressive' ADAPTIVE MODE where the fans go from 0 ...100% in order that a +-0.1c variation could be maintained during the Calibration - this would give approx a 1 deg c headroom Above the calibration temperature compared to the current method.

    Suggestion : Change the ADAPTIVE algorithm TARGET TEMP during recording to be 0.5 degree above the Calibration temp (as it would minimise sensor noise)

    +) CORE TEMPERATURE

    I could not find evidence that the ADAPTIVE algorithm uses the Core Temperature in its steering of the Fan Power to reach the Sensor Temperature. FAN speed ramping only appeared to coincide with Sensor Temperature fluctuations. (use of a 2nd variable would help if a 'critical damping' fn was the aim)

    +) QUIET MODE

    I am not convinced this more works as intended - on several occasions the fans ramped up high levels even though the Sensor Temp was already more than 1 degree colder than the Calibration temperature.

    My guess that people don't use this mode any more? (Or that somehow the internal copy of the target temperature was used in preference to the one exposed in the SDK Target Temp. I note in the manual that this is only supposed to happen when a calibration map is downloaded).

    However :As quiet did not exactly meet my needs I did not explore this further or try and track down the root cause.

    AJ
    Last edited by Antony Newman; 03-27-2020 at 11:27 AM.
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Suggested new Fan Mode : FAN SPEED LIMIT IN RECORD

    The unwanted sounds from the camera are :
    +) White noise from top two camera intake fans (approx 3dB louder than air exiting exhaust)
    +) High frequency fan bearing sounds (which amps up from about 45%)
    +) Very high frequency sound from OLED screen (can be blocked if screen is covered)

    The problem with ADAPTIVE is that it MIGHT ramp up to a point where White Noise, or HF Bearing sound is intrusive.
    With a chart of absolute sound level vs FAN percentage - What is known is the top speed the Fans can run during recording before the audio is ruined.

    Armed with the existing details parameters that the user already updates in fan modes :


    Proposed Parameters in : ‘FAN SPEED LIMIT IN RECORDING’ mode:
    +) 'Maximum Record Speed' - is the maximum record speed used when recording (which would PROTECT me from unwanted sound contamination)
    +) 'Post Record Delay' - is used as a time after record stops that the FAN speed is allow to ramp up to a faster speed (that will cook the speed of the fan down). The rate of increase to this new speed will be slow initially to rapid (to minimise 'drama' on set / ease up the speed over a few seconds).
    +) 'Maximum Preview Speed' - After recording, the sensor might be 49c and I want to get down to 46c : The Fan will increase over 'Post Record Delay' up to this new level (eg 100%).
    +) 'Target Temperature' : After Recording - The fans will run at 'Maximum Preview Speed' - UNTIL the 'Target Temperature' is reached. After that point the Camera switches to an Aggressive ADAPTIVE - taking into account the temperature of the Core Temp - and aiming to keep the temperature between 0.0c and 0.5c ABOVE the TARGET TEMPERATURE. In the event that a CALIBRATION is loaded - this Number is updated over the SDK (I don't believe it is currently).

    [ +) ALSO : If there is more temperature resolution available - please alter the RCP for temperatures so that external programs can display. This might be useful for those wanting finer control during manual calibration (ie where the adapting Algorithm was not aggressive enough) ]
    The benefit of this mode would be for people who want to Record -> cool down -> Record with the minimum time, and Not have to depend on an operator to do it each time.

    AJ
    Last edited by Antony Newman; 03-30-2020 at 01:15 PM.
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  3. #53  
    Very interesting information!
    Thanks a lot!
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  4. #54  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Thanks Daniel.

    Hopefully these results will be enough for Red to verify / and create a tweaked fan mode for those striving for the highest quality audio recorded in Camera.

    AJ
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  5. #55  
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    I had another look into this during the hottest part of Summer a couple of months back.

    I also found the 'Adaptive' and 'Adaptive Preview/Quiet Record' don't work properly (or at least as I'd like them to), wherein the fans don't pull the temp far down enough when in 'Preview Mode' and so kick in too soon/too high when in 'Record Mode', so I had to explore the Manual mode.

    I'll probably have to look into it again when the ambient temperatures drop to their lowest over Winter, but for the time being I've just made a 42°C & 46°C Calibration to suit the higher ambient temps I'm currently experiencing.

    That's partly based on allowing a 4°C range either side of the target sensor temp (ie. keeping the T/E indicator in the green). At 5°C above the target (calibrated) sensor temp the on-screen indicator turns yellow, but within 4°C I haven't seen any degradation in the recorded image so I don't mind if the temp wanders a bit within that range.

    Something else I noticed was that the sensor temp was consistently 10-11°C above the ambient temp when the fans were at 100% in Preview mode, as measured with a probe placed at the camera's fan intake. What that meant was, with a 46°C Calibration, I could still record in a 36°C ambient environment.

    However, I also found that I'd like to keep the fans running at 40% or less to minimize their noise, and that in turns results in a 17°C difference between ambient and sensor temps when actually recording.

    As an actual example -

    From -

    33.4°C Ambient Temp.
    100% Preview Manual Fans.
    44°C/62°C Sensor/Camera Temp.
    (With 46°C Calibration).

    To -

    33.8°C Ambient Temp.
    40% Record Manual Fans.
    50°C/75°C Sensor/Camera Temp.
    (With 46°C Calibration).

    In - 6:31 mins

    So, 6-7 mins record time (or 5-6 mins @ 36°C Ambient Temp.) before hitting 51°C Sensor/Camera Temp and going out of calibration (triggering Yellow indicator).
    Then 1-2 mins at 100% fans to get back to 46°C Sensor/Camera Temp.


    For me, all the temps we can calibrate at will give a good image within about 4°C of the chosen calibration, so it's all about finding a balance between what ambient temp you're recording in and what fan noise level you find acceptable. For me, choosing a 40% fan noise level, I'd either have to limit the amount of recording time per shot, or control the ambient temp (to somewhere below 33°C with a 46°C Calibration) to give longer record times per shot or eliminate having to cool down between takes.
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  6. #56  
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    Would 43-44 degrees celsius also be recommended for Gemini sensor?
    R3D DSMC2 GEMINI
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