Thread: Phil's First Monstro Thoughts

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  1. #1 Phil's First Monstro Thoughts 
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Okay. So earlier today I was really, really fortunate to begin testing Monstro along with Peter Collister as well (also a treat). My interests are how it performs against all of RED's 8K offerings and as some of you know I've been working with 8K VV Dragon for a long while now as well as 8K S35 Helium.



    Left to right: RED Weapon Monstro 8K VV, RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV, and RED Weapon 8K S35. (8K family portrait, achievement unlocked)

    I wrapped earlier today, but there was one huge thing that stood out immediately. Monstro is ridiculously clean in the shadows.

    Here's a rather extreme test:



    Click the image for a UHD 4K sized frame with the 100% crops.

    So that's at ISO 6400 featuring the new ISO Calibration. If you aren't using that yet, this is actually what ISO 12800 looks like.

    This is insane. And it's safe to say a few things just based on this.

    1. Higher frame rate/over cranked material is going to look much better.
    2. Low light material is going to look significantly better.
    3. Shooting at lower resolutions and formats will also look better due to the minimal texture/noise/grain.
    4. This has benefits to anamorphic workflows as you are now stretching a cleaner image.
    5. Should also play a role in REDCODE Compression Ratios and how high you're willing to go, but I'm mostly a lower compression ratio sort of fellow.

    I'm still reviewing what I've shot and I will be shooting more shortly, but this one feature is so very big. I mean this is the first time anything usable was coming from these insane light levels.

    This works all the way down and if you like clean material, ISO 250 is "super glass" smooth.

    Color-wise it's really nice. Blues in particular. I can certainly feel this a balance of what's good about Dragon and what's good about Helium. Dragon for instance still suffered from CMOS smear in these extreme low light situations if you had a bright source, I'm literally seeing none of that on Monstro. Zip.

    We're getting into some minutiae in some ways as all of these 8K sensors are really state of the art. In my mind they all have strengths and weaknesses, but right now I'm focusing on the "holy crap" strengths of Monstro.

    At the moment it's light sensitivity, noise, and general color are pretty banging.

    If you've got questions, fire away. I've got lots of thoughts.
    Last edited by Phil Holland; 10-12-2017 at 03:17 AM.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

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  2. #2 Considering Helium S35 
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    Can you share what you feel the strengths of Helium S35 are? Also what can tell me about the pink fringing that has been mentioned in the forums? We are debating a Helium purchase at the office.
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  3. #3  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Skinner View Post
    Can you share what you feel the strengths of Helium S35 are? Also what can tell me about the pink fringing that has been mentioned in the forums? We are debating a Helium purchase at the office.
    You'll have to show me an R3D of whatever pink fringing we're talking about, but as for Helium some of the good stuff:

    - 8K Resolution
    - IPP2 In Camera
    - 8K in the Super 35mm+ format size (works with well known cinema lenses)

    Overall my perspective is RED is doing the very right thing by providing solutions for different format sizes. VistaVision and Super 35mm. And remember there's other formats that can be found within. For Helium for instance you could shoot 3.5K and in many cases 4K with Super 16 lenses even.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Phil,

    Monstro is something serious!! Its Like it doesn't know its being used at iso 6400. Were you able to find at what iso Monstro started to exhibit the same noise pattern as Helium?
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Akin A's Avatar
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    Nice!
    How about the highlight clipping point in comparison to the other sensors?
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Shawn P's Avatar
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    Hey Phil, do you think using a low light OLPF would have made a difference or cleaner image on the Monstro?
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  7. #7  
    Phil, your intro says "Left to right: RED Weapon Monstro 8K VV, RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV, and RED Weapon 8K S35."

    However, the legends in the images are "Left to right: RED Weapon 8K S35, RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV, and RED Weapon Monstro 8K VV."
    Michael Tiemann, Chapel Hill NC

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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tiemann View Post
    Phil, your intro says "Left to right: RED Weapon Monstro 8K VV, RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV, and RED Weapon 8K S35."

    However, the legends in the images are "Left to right: RED Weapon 8K S35, RED Weapon Dragon 8K VV, and RED Weapon Monstro 8K VV."
    That's for the picture of the cameras :)
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  9. #9  
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    Thanks for the test Phil, which lens did you use for the test and at what settings?
    Monstro looks like a huge improvement.
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  10. #10  
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    That looks amazing. And well done for pushing it into the extreme, dont be shy :)
    Monstro seems another stop cleaner than Helium.
    Also less artefacts :). That extra resolution really helps. Im super happy with Helium apart from the green tint.
    Very curious if monstro got the red dot grid pattern has as Helium and Dragon.

    Your work is much appreciated Phil!
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