Thread: Help With Frame Rate and Playback

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  1. #1 Help With Frame Rate and Playback 
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    Shooting Skateboarding on a Raven, my problem is my playback, it never looks clean.

    I cant figure out what to use for project timebase, and fps..Yes I want slow motion, Specifically I want to be able to use speed ramps from normal speed playback to slow when viewing a trick playback.

    I have tried timebsae of 47 with fps fo 47... did not look good.

    When i shoot 60 with a 29 timebase, its automatically slowed down when I import and to get it back to normal speed it looks terrible.

    ANY help would be appreciated, I am shooting a trick in an hour that has been planned out for 2 weeks now, please help!

    Thank you!
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Assuming I understand what you are asking... :-) And I am not sure what you mean when you say "did not look good."

    Since you want to playback slo-mo in some parts of a continuous clip, I think you'd want to set both project timebase and capture at the same speed - maybe 60 fps. With fast action, you might also want to close down the shutter angle to avoid too much motion blur. Of course, that combination is going to cut down on light reaching the sensor so you have to compensate. I assume you are shooting outdoors so that shouldn't be a problem.

    At that point, I'd do all your ramping and speed changes in post.

    Two additional thoughts:

    - 47 fps is a rather off choice
    - in the future, I'd suggest testing so you don't have this dilemma an hour before shooting

    Good luck.
    Scarlet Dragon
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  3. #3  
    Keep your fps a multiple of the project timebase. 24/48/72... or 30/60/90... Set the shutter to double your fps for what is typically thought of as natural motion. Like Terry said, if it's too blurry for you then increase the shutter; but, beware going crazy with it will give you staccato.

    Set your project timebase in-camera to whatever you want to deliver, 23.976, 25, 30. When you bring the footage into your edit, it will be slowed. Use the re-timing tools to speed it back to normal speed. If you're bringing higher fps footage shot on a higher project timebase into editing software on a different timebase, you might be seeing dropped frames. There's not enough information in your post to tell what exactly is going wrong; however, RED has beautiful slow-motion, so it shouldn't be looking "terrible."
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  4. #4  
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    Terry.. also Marin County here... Thank you!! I am able to close down the shutter angle and still achieve smooth slow mo? I was always under the impression I had to be at 180
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIck Cangello View Post
    Terry.. also Marin County here... Thank you!! I am able to close down the shutter angle and still achieve smooth slow mo? I was always under the impression I had to be at 180
    You don't "have to" be at 180 but, as stated above, it tends to give the most natural motion blur under normal circumstances. For fast action, I think it is pretty normal to close it down more. But it somewhat depends on just how high of a frame rate you are shooting. I also agree that closing it down too much will give very distinct and usually unwanted look. I'd suggest 90 degrees. Testing is helpful. Truth is, if shooting very high fps, you may actually opening the shutter angle to avoid that staccato look.

    I think, if you are not shooting sound in the camera, you can shoot a 23.97 (or whatever base rate you want) and choose your slo-mo frame rate (and yes, as suggested above - stick to multiples of your base rate) or you can match base rate and frame rate and put into a different timeline in post - depending on what you want. Not sure if it ends up making a difference since the key thing is that you are capturing all the visual data you want.

    Good luck. And it's great to meet another Marin shooter. PM me and maybe we can get together to compare notes.
    Scarlet Dragon
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  6. #6  
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    Skateboarding tends to look best with 90 deg shutter. Project fps to your delivery speed (timeline fps) and use the various speed ramping tools available. However, after effects interpolated the speed ramps much cleaner than premiere for example. The variable frame rates produce an unpleasing cadence in premiere since it doesn't redistribute the frames evenly during ramping. Try 'replace clips with AE composition' in premiere, do your ramping, come back to edit. Seems to be the best workflow I've found so far. Used it extensively on Rune Glifberg's 'In Transition' part when I shot and edited that a few years back. Should work for you. Post some samples if possible. Good luck.

    PS Also a San Anselmo native here. George Lucas still lurking around the same old local grocery store and the Dipsea cafe. Red Hill ftw.🤙🏼
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