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  1. #241  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    I'm not a "cinema" shooter so in a lot of documentary, sports, etc you DON'T want the super shallow DOF and I would think that would also be true in a lot of "cinema" action sequences - so I'm curious when is it that you want shallow DOF AND 4x slo-mo? (versus 5K cropped Helium 96fps)
    We do wildlife so DOF is not an issue with Helium. The crop could be a benefit since we would get closer to wildlife. However the pixels are so small on Helium so I worry that if you crop you will enhance lens issues such as chromatic abberation and also introduce more refraction. Also if you crop you will normally have more noise since less light will hit the sensor and less noise is always good for wildlife.

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  2. #242  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasOberg View Post
    We do wildlife so DOF is not an issue with Helium. The crop could be a benefit since we would get closer to wildlife. However the pixels are so small on Helium so I worry that if you crop you will enhance lens issues such as chromatic abberation and also introduce more refraction. Also if you crop you will normally have more noise since less light will hit the sensor and less noise is always good for wildlife.

    /Andreas
    It is true that generally speaking if you are comparing pixels at the same level of tech advancement and same pixel design i.e. 2018 6 micron vs 2018 3.8 micron than yes they should be a little less noisy. But if the lens is capable of handling the smaller pixel pitch (and the helium are not that small relative to what is commonly used in many high quality cameras these days) then chromatic aberration and refraction shouldn't be a big issue.

    As you say, wildlife usually needs more DOF so you may actually be able to use a larger stop/more light to the sensor given the greater DOF of the smaller crop.

    As a wildlife and underwater shooter myself for over 30 years I tend to look at it in the other direction - I like having the capability of getting maximum resolution. Wildlife/underwater pictures generally don't become obsolete like many regular programs EXCEPT when the picture quality/resolution isn't up to snuff. One of my aggravations is that I have hundreds of hours of pretty cool footage - that is essentially worthless now since it was shot standard def (Betacam and such that was the best available at the time) so is essentially 720 x 486 pixels at best. Having the highest resolution possible is the best protection against obsolescence. Obviously, if certain shots are too noisy then they don't have value but the tradeoff is that if ALL of your footage is max 5K it will not have as broad market appeal in the 8K future as actual 8K material.

    My biggest frustration over the 35+ years I have been shooting underwater and regular video is that for most of that time I was stuck with essentially .7K video even though I spent $35,000 in 1980s dollars (almost $75000 in todays dollars) yet my still photo friends that spent $2800 or so on a nikonos 4, a 15mm, and a flash were shooting essentially 6K pictures and really as good as any of the professionals.

    That's why when I walked into the RED booth at Nab 2006 and saw a 4K/8megapixel movie camera that I could buy for a third of what I paid for my Betacams, I immediately placed an order.

    Obviously there are some tradeoffs whichever way you go but given the quality of the Helium sensor - I think I lean toward keeping the 8K capability.
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  3. #243  
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    Red sales reps sent me sone links for Gemini footage - but would like to see noon daylight, sunset, twilight and night street scene
    Does anyone have that? Or is anyone in LA with Gemini available for lower cost rental just to see what the footage looks like?
    Thx
    Mike
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  4. #244  
    Senior Member Andrew R Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    It is true that generally speaking if you are comparing pixels at the same level of tech advancement and same pixel design i.e. 2018 6 micron vs 2018 3.8 micron than yes they should be a little less noisy. But if the lens is capable of handling the smaller pixel pitch (and the helium are not that small relative to what is commonly used in many high quality cameras these days) then chromatic aberration and refraction shouldn't be a big issue.

    As you say, wildlife usually needs more DOF so you may actually be able to use a larger stop/more light to the sensor given the greater DOF of the smaller crop.

    As a wildlife and underwater shooter myself for over 30 years I tend to look at it in the other direction - I like having the capability of getting maximum resolution. Wildlife/underwater pictures generally don't become obsolete like many regular programs EXCEPT when the picture quality/resolution isn't up to snuff. One of my aggravations is that I have hundreds of hours of pretty cool footage - that is essentially worthless now since it was shot standard def (Betacam and such that was the best available at the time) so is essentially 720 x 486 pixels at best. Having the highest resolution possible is the best protection against obsolescence. Obviously, if certain shots are too noisy then they don't have value but the tradeoff is that if ALL of your footage is max 5K it will not have as broad market appeal in the 8K future as actual 8K material.

    My biggest frustration over the 35+ years I have been shooting underwater and regular video is that for most of that time I was stuck with essentially .7K video even though I spent $35,000 in 1980s dollars (almost $75000 in todays dollars) yet my still photo friends that spent $2800 or so on a nikonos 4, a 15mm, and a flash were shooting essentially 6K pictures and really as good as any of the professionals.

    That's why when I walked into the RED booth at Nab 2006 and saw a 4K/8megapixel movie camera that I could buy for a third of what I paid for my Betacams, I immediately placed an order.

    Obviously there are some tradeoffs whichever way you go but given the quality of the Helium sensor - I think I lean toward keeping the 8K capability.

    Very well said. I want that Gemini so bad for so many reasons. But I just can’t justify losing the resolution that has me spoiled with Helium. For me, I’ll need to look at Gemini as a second camera. But I need lenses. Damnit!
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  5. #245  
    Senior Member Blair Thornton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Sung View Post
    For my purposes and needs, I think this is the most perfect camera Red has made.
    I agree !
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  6. #246  
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    My question is, if there is no path from SW to Gemini then what is the path from SW? As others have stated its the most logical progression...
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  7. #247  
    Senior Member Blair Thornton's Avatar
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    looks like we need a new Photoshop plug-in for Gemini !
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  8. #248  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew R Lewis View Post
    Very well said. I want that Gemini so bad for so many reasons. But I just can’t justify losing the resolution that has me spoiled with Helium. For me, I’ll need to look at Gemini as a second camera. But I need lenses. Damnit!
    How about virtual 5.16 micron pixels at 7..8k (depending on the aspect ratio) with standard FF lenses?
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  9. #249  
    Senior Member Andrew R Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    How about virtual 5.16 micron pixels at 7..8k (depending on the aspect ratio) with standard FF lenses?
    Sounds great, and expensive. Great thing about Gemini is it is affordable, relatively.
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  10. #250  
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    Scarlet-W path being worked out apparently from Jarred’s FB post.
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