Thread: NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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  1. #211  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    This isn't an update on the original Pocket Cam. Best to think of it as a pocket version of the Ursa Mini Pro. This is how it was described to me by the BM engineer at the show.
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  2. #212  
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    C. Burkhart

    Thanks for sharing his you see it. Maybe some of what you are saying is what I'm seeing, even in the tattoo picture above. I contemplated it.msy have something to do with the way the sensor circuites boost the image which creates a stepped difference in skin tones. You see the dark patches on Daniel's forehead above, as if he has strange scuff marks. You see the dark show in her cheeks, which is more acceptable. Now, you see a high plateauimg if the skin tones around it, and on his nose. Now, going to.tje sample shit, you see this off jumping gradient of skin tone in his arm, and the plateauingnin his hand. Go to the other arm. You can see a clear long pool of burning out brightness there, and jumping out shadow. Very bad on the older micro production camera. I have older pocket cameras with previous Aptina technology, where I have not noticed this. Over ten years ago the tech was different, and yes with ambarella chios doing the skin rendering. So, it's been a bit bewildering seeing cinema cameras do this. I picked up in it the first 4.6k sample I saw too. It's unsettling. I've got Asperger's, and I can spot things, my favourite puzzles as a kid was spot the difference. Plus years ago, skin tunes would even get distorted mid shit, you could see them crawl a bit (unsettling. First zombie skinny tones then that). They did some changes in the Sebring after I reported that.

    But yes, at the top E d the skin tones are satiating out, and then rapidly changing from level to level. The desaturation might be related to pixel architecture, but also maybe the color filter. If you try to compensate for lack of anti-akaising filter by making fatter overlapping primaries to try to catch changes in the other channels, you are going to lack more differentiation the brighter you go. Only a theory. But merely pushing up the levels in circuits unevenly, as I think I said previously, could cause this. Bright goes too bright mids jump or something happening there. That would accommodate the tattoo frame, which I know was on a monochrome sensor.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  3. #213  
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Burkhart View Post
    1) Hey, I said, I liked what I saw coming from the BM pocket camera. However, I was responding to greyness that still existed in a graded image, not a log one.
    2) No it does not look a billion times better than 5d or C300 footage. There are plenty of great examples out there, and frankly the 14bit image from ML raw on the 5D MarkIII has just terrific color. Sometimes I don't even need to touch it, it so close to a scene's actual color.
    3) The C300 MarkII can do amazing skin tones that easily rival anything I have seen coming from any other company. Skin tones are frankly what Canon does best. So let's just reign the hyperbole in a little bit.
    hahaha, ok.
    so you were commenting on the grade? someone did with a jpeg? sorry i miss understood.
    dont want to argue with you because im learning it doesnt get you anywhere, but i have never, and neither have my top tier colorists, been happy with c300 or 5D footage, though ive shot feature docs and pretty big doc style campaigns on them, never happy. sure the skin tones are nice and warm, but the files are always pretty flimsy.
    though ive never shot with a hacked camera like you mentioned.
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  4. #214  
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    (re-edit: In reply to your previous post before the last one).

    Jordan I think I'll stick with C. I can see other stuff there, which I hope post can auto neutralise before the main grading (built in resolve app functionality).

    Really, skin tones the manufacturers should concentrate on, not just Canon. Hidden signals that something is not right, is not what you want to give the audience.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  5. #215  
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    He, ha, Jordan. You shoot with an unhacked 5D (who should be shoot now ).
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  6. #216  
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    Ok, tremble. This made me think of dressing up in a Godzilla outfit for a YouTube joke, and going up to a BM booth at a trade show with a letter to order my Pocket 4k.

    https://www.43rumors.com/new-blackma...ze-comparison/



    It's not that much bigger, but boy does it look bigger.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  7. #217  
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    Ok, why I'm here. I have been looking into these allegations that this camera has the same sense as X, y, z cameras. I'll compare to the z-cam e2. The owner says it's 13.5 stops, not 13 like here. 12 million pixels, not 8.x like I keep reading about the pocket. So, maybe a different sensor without 4kp120 mode etc.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  8. #218  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini View Post
    He, ha, Jordan. You shoot with an unhacked 5D (who should be shoot now ).
    im laughing at the hacked camera, hmmm, maybe the one who makes a living at it for 25 years. maybe the one who has shot and sold feature docs...maybe..well...
    yeah, this is such a great forum, no wonder everyone leaves. im done, have fun debating over nothing.
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  9. #219  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordan levy View Post
    i dont see anything different then what comes out of any camera in log, look at the youtube video of the person who was there shooting what was on the screen.
    i have had alexa log footage that looked flatter and more grey then that at first look, the information will be there, it's all about what you do with it.
    as jb and others have said, how much can we say off these single images, most of us are pretty blown away, looks a billion times better then any 5d or c300 footage i have seen.
    That was not log footage on the show monitor by the way (Youtube clip). The camera was set on ProresHQ with an output LUT ("Film to Extended Video" as I recall it)
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  10. #220  
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    I really hope they can get prores raw in there... I'm sure that's been the number 1 question they've been getting. That would get rid of any (apple) workflow issues and streamline things so much more, especially when doing that direct-to-drive capture.

    As I've said, I don't think of this so much as a Raven competitor (though I bet they'd cut together seamlessly)... More so as a replacement for 5DML raw or A7s/A7r or GH4/5/5s. And in that context, it's a no-brainer (hell, used 5D3s are still $1000). I just see massive potential for slapping a Speedbooster XL on there and having FF35 f0.9 lenses and insanely clean ISO3200 in a 4k raw codec up to 60p. That is crazy talk... you'll easily be able to shoot 60p/180deg at night... insane. Further, (on paper) it's much better than having to crank the ISO on an $3000+ A7s/A7r (which is a baked codec and looses DR and colour when you start pushing the ISO).

    Oh, and free copy of Resolve Studio...

    The only thing standing in its way is Hydrogen, but something tells me RED is gonna end up pushing it out of the price range via proprietary-modularity... Have they (RED) discussed the sensor at all? Will it be r3dcode? Will it be 4k? Will it do internal prores (prores raw)? Is it m43 or 1" or 1/2"?

    Conversely, maybe BMD will shit the bed and it'll end up sucking. I'm cautiously optimistic.
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