Thread: NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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  1. #101  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    I think this new camera is great. A bit big though, don't you think?

    Still, I'd consider using it as a stills camera. What stills camera do you know that does 60fps? Oh yeah, there isn't one. I'm happy with the resolution, as it will be plenty for what I normally shoot. And it's fairly cheap, which is quite amazing. I also like the 4/3 format.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Johnson View Post
    Exactly. An s35 4K RAW pocket RED is all I want and hope for :)
    Many people want RED to make something like that. I'm very surprised that they haven't.
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  2. #102  
    I think the problem is RED is a top-tier camera manufacturer and has a certain quality standard at which they make their cameras. While not a bad thing, Blackmagic represents the opposite end where they've figured out how to manufacture cameras of a ridiculous price/performance ratio by releasing earlier cameras with slight issues that people generally forgave given their overall performance. Maybe they don't have as much exclusive IP as say RED and their sensors maybe get a spinoff release once Blackmagic has finished the development for their own cameras, but all of this helps to provide better cameras at a lower cost. If this camera has the same sensor as the Kinefinity Terra 4k then the highlight rolloff and general dynamic range should be decent. Not good, but not bad either. On the Terra 4K there's an 8ms sensor readout which is very nice.

    The camera is not the most beautiful thing I've ever seen but it's nowhere "ugly" and I feel like it's one of those things you will forget about once you realize the ergonomics are more in line with what you want in this type of small camera. It's not a "pocket" camera anymore, but I'm glad they scaled it up and jammed in better features and image quality vs. trying to live up to the original name.

    Given the price of the raven shooting kit ($15K?), I highly doubt they can produce a camera even remotely close to this price point that can shoot redcode, prores, etc. $1295 is a bargain of a price and makes me wonder why people even care about interchangeable lens mounts, sensors, etc. It's so cheap you can just buy another one.
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  3. #103  
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    From what I heard it uses the same sensor as the GH5s.

    https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...x294cjk_e.html
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  4. #104  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    From what I heard it uses the same sensor as the GH5s.
    Perhaps. But the BM camera records Prores and, in all likelihood, RAW (either DNG or Prores RAW or perhaps both). The GH5 requires external recorders to do Prores, and doesn't do RAW at all (at least not in the current model).

    I have a GH4 and have been pretty satisfied with it, but I don't use it professionally.....
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  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by M Most View Post
    Perhaps. But the BM camera records Prores and, in all likelihood, RAW (either DNG or Prores RAW or perhaps both). The GH5 requires external recorders to do Prores, and doesn't do RAW at all (at least not in the current model).

    I have a GH4 and have been pretty satisfied with it, but I don't use it professionally.....
    It does RAW and Prores up to 4:2:2 HQ in all resolutions and framerates. Not sure how they were able to get 4K 60fps onto a Cfast 2.0 card but that is pretty impressive. While very gimmicky and probably unreliable, I feel like that moment where he recorded directly from USB to an external SSD and instantly dropped it into Resolve was insane.

    The fact that it has a 5 inch screen, 3 recording media options, two audio inputs including mini-XLR, 4K 60fps and 1080p 120fps Prores HQ and Raw in that form factor is very impressive. And $1295 is unbelievable.

    Here are the full Specs:
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...etcinemacamera
    Last edited by Savannah Miller; 04-09-2018 at 05:59 PM.
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  6. #106  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah Miller View Post
    Not sure how they were able to get 4K 60fps onto a Cfast 2.0 card but that is pretty impressive. While very gimmicky and probably unreliable, I feel like that moment where he recorded directly from USB to an external SSD and instantly dropped it into Resolve was insane.
    CinemaDNG RAW - 540 MB/s
    CinemaDNG RAW 3:1 - 256 MB/s
    CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 - 192 MB/s

    at 60 fps.

    With CDNG RAW 3:1 and 4:1 it is no problem at all.

    Why do you think it will be unreliable? It's all proven technology they are using on this camera.
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  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    CinemaDNG RAW - 540 MB/s
    CinemaDNG RAW 3:1 - 256 MB/s
    CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 - 192 MB/s

    at 60 fps.

    With CDNG RAW 3:1 and 4:1 it is no problem at all.

    Why do you think it will be unreliable? It's all proven technology they are using on this camera.
    I was referring to the USB-C external harddisk recording option. Those connectors aren't very durable. And they claim on the website lossless raw too at 60fps. Ursa Mini Pro requires dual card mode to reach those speeds.
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  8. #108  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah Miller View Post
    I was referring to the USB-C external harddisk recording option. Those connectors aren't very durable. And they claim on the website lossless raw too at 60fps. Ursa Mini Pro requires dual card mode to reach those speeds.
    From your link "Higher performance UHS-II cards can be used for recording Ultra HD in ProRes at up to 60 frames per second and RAW at up to 30 frames per second."

    USB 3.1 Gen 2 is upto 10 Gbit/s so it should be fast enough (when it is Gen 2).
    Don't know about the connector, time will tell.
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  9. #109  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    From what I heard it uses the same sensor as the GH5s.

    https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...x294cjk_e.html
    Yeah same sensor as the Panasonic GH5s, ZCam E2, Kinefinity Terra 4k...

    That's the go-to cheap cine camera sensor this year it seems.

    Only the E2 seems to get the full 4k120 out of the sensor with the help of h265. But for the price the blackmagic seems pretty impressive. Seems like this is the new low budget benchmark. It still has somewhat limited dynamic range though, at 12-13stops max depending who you ask.
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  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Engel View Post
    From your link "Higher performance UHS-II cards can be used for recording Ultra HD in ProRes at up to 60 frames per second and RAW at up to 30 frames per second."

    USB 3.1 Gen 2 is upto 10 Gbit/s so it should be fast enough (when it is Gen 2).
    Don't know about the connector, time will tell.
    Yeah I was assuming it would be flaky like the mini-HDMI in the pocket camera. The speed is good so that shouldn't be an issue. The audio is the same preamps in the VideoAssist 4K so they should be very good.

    The things that are most interesting to me are the USB-C power as that opens up a whole new world of low-cost USB battery banks to power the camera. 3D lut support is interesting too because even the Raven at 10x the cost doesn't have that feature.

    E2 is pretty poor codec-wise and from the previous E1 camera I would almost not really call it a cinema camera. If they continue they way they did with the first cam, it will probably be junk. Terra 4k is pretty good and the dynamic range, while a little weak, doesn't look awful. Highlight rolloff looks respectable.

    I feel like the idea of USB-C external recording might inspire other camera manufacturers to do the same thing. I think the only other big innovation that made it onto other cameras was Blackmagic being the first camera ever to record Raw and Prores internally. Pretty cool for being only a $1995 camera.
    Last edited by Savannah Miller; 04-09-2018 at 06:38 PM.
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