Longer form docos and red workflow

[Rob Castiglione]

Hi all.

My work often involves longer form docos with quite a few hours of footage. From reading the threads, I think I can handle data management and backup out in the field but what is the best approach to reducing the turnaround time for getting footage ready to edit? Mostly at the moment tv is the output medium. I have read somewhere that it it can take more than 6 hours typically per hour to get your red 4k footage ready for editing.

There appear to be a number of solutions but I have no real world experience of any of them (yet! will be putting down a deposit soon).

1. Is Red Rushes the way to go? I have an eight core Mac. How long will it take to transcode say an hour of red 4k to say an hour of HD using Red Rushes using the Mac 8 core?
2. Does shooting in 2K have any advantages from this perspective?
3 What about working directly with the proxy files. Is that faster and importantly does it provide sufficient quality (for tv and specifically to meet broadcaster tech checks for HD) as compared to transcoding initially?

At one level, I suppose I am asking about the viability of using the Red for longer form docos assuming that you have to get the footage ready for editing yourself.

I would really appreciate hearing what people are doing in this area.

Rob

[Shawn Booth]

If you edit with the proxies, generally, after piclock, you then use Crimson to go back to REDCINE/RED Alert! to do your one light and transcode.

If you want to transcode ahead of cutting, go for it and then you're fine.

Can't answer any of your "How long will it take" ?'s - you only said you have an eight core, no other info.....
4 hours of 4K footage probably wouldn't be transcoded at once anyway.

Depending on your doc's final outlet, shoot 4K. Hell, shoot 4K period. Why wouldn't you shoot at the highest quality possible? You can down it to whatever you want/need.

I'm currently doing a long form doc, shooting 4K, transcoding to UC10bit in REDCINE. No problems, client loves everything - I not only live in paradise, I work with it. (Thanks RED.)

[Steve Sherrick]

2K will go faster in transcode, but...

I highly recommend sticking with 4K. You're using the full sensor, and I think you will find the footage is cleaner overall. But you will also increase your storage needs and 150 hours of 4K even in the magic Redcode will still add up. Unless you have footage you consider disposable, you will need to archive the 4K masters.

[Mark Crabtree]

My company does spots, sometimes we do Docs and Corp. For spots Red's workflow with RedCine or RedAlert is hardly adequate. Many a time I have shot a spot in the morning and edited in the afternoon, emailed a WMV for approval and Dubbed before 6PM. If the client responds with a revision, forget it. If you are doing a long format project, and that's all you are doing, you might be able to deliver a product while your subject matter is still current. If you have lots of clients, you will need Scratch or CineForm. Render times for RedCine and RedAlert are not acceptable for a professional with lots of clients and real deadlines.

[Shawn Booth]

If you have lots of clients, you will need Scratch or CineForm. Render times for RedCine and RedAlert are not acceptable for a professional with lots of clients and real deadlines.

I couldn't disagree more with this. I use REDCINE every day to accomplish this very thing.

I'm not using an iMac or just a laptop but rather a Mac Pro on steroids. I don't experience problems using RC, love it in fact.

You should be able to accomplish this as well working with "lots of clients".
EDIT: Not meant as slight in any way, just a general statement implying you could afford a decent system,

[Mark Crabtree]

I use a Mac Pro 3GHZ Quadcore, 8 Gigs Ram, 2.5 Terabyte 200 MB/Sec Raid, and Kona 3. Even with this system, using RedCine or RedAlert, I cannot make strict deadlines, like shooting three spots in the morning and editing three spots, making revisions and dubbing for TV stations by end of day. Scratch gives you realtime playback and color correction, CineForm gives you near realtime. Without Scratch or CineForm these kinds of tight deliveries CANNOT be made unless you are talking about a very simplistic editorial. I have other clients depending on us completing previous work on schedule so we can devote the next day to them.

[Sam Roberts]

What about screening hours of footage to choose what you want to use before heading into FCP? What's the best way to screen camera footage in real time with burned in timecode and audio?

[M Most]

I use a Mac Pro 3GHZ Quadcore, 8 Gigs Ram, 2.5 Terabyte 200 MB/Sec Raid, and Kona 3. Even with this system, using RedCine or RedAlert, I cannot make strict deadlines, like shooting three spots in the morning and editing three spots, making revisions and dubbing for TV stations by end of day. Scratch gives you realtime playback and color correction, CineForm gives you near realtime. Without Scratch or CineForm these kinds of tight deliveries CANNOT be made unless you are talking about a very simplistic editorial. I have other clients depending on us completing previous work on schedule so we can devote the next day to them.

If you have same day shoot, cut, and delivery, the only technology you should be using today is video, whether that be on P2, SxS, SDHC, or tape - assuming that you have to do this in an HD format. You simply do not have time for any format that requires image reconstruction and non-real time conversions. (such as Red). If, however, you're talking about standard def delivery, you can convert R3d files to SD in faster than real time, with basic color correction, by using Redcine on just about any 8 core Mac - and with no rendering following editorial.

[M Most]

What about screening hours of footage to choose what you want to use before heading into FCP? What's the best way to screen camera footage in real time with burned in timecode and audio?

Redcine.

[roryhinds]

RedCine needs AJA & BlackMagic support.

Do RED own Redcine and develop it independently or does Assimilate?
I guess with the SDK we'll start to see many ways of viewing your 3RD files.