Thread: Dragon 5k vs. Dragon 6k

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  1. #1 Dragon 5k vs. Dragon 6k 
    Hi there!

    I was wondering if both sensors are visually the same in terms of cinematic feel? It is just that I believe to see a difference between both footages especially in motion interpretation of the sensor (did not have a one on one comparison though). The 6k feels more like a blockbuster movie and the 5k a little bit less and towards DSLR-ish more fitting for a music or event video. It is my subjective view and I would like to hear from professionals.

    What do you think?
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Akin A's Avatar
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    "Cinematic feel" is subjective, but technically:

    Scarlet-W Dragon 5K has double the data rate and lower compression than Scarlet Dragon 5K.
    Epic Dragon 6K improves on data rate/compression over the Scarlets and Weapon Dragon 6K improves on Epic Dragon 6K.

    Using the same lens and aperture to get the same shot, 6K image from the larger sized sensor will have a more shallow depth of field than the 5K image, since you would have to move closer to get the same framing.
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    Senior Member Aaron Lochert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Behrens View Post
    The 6k feels more like a blockbuster movie and the 5k a little bit less and towards DSLR-ish more fitting for a music or event video. It is my subjective view and I would like to hear from professionals.
    You might just be seeing a correlation between lower budges and higher budgets. The difference in purchasing a RED camera that has a 5K dragon sensor and one that has a 6K dragon sensor is currently $37,500.

    The Scarlet-W is targeted toward that music or event video crowd, so it's natural you'll see more of that kind of work. I'm of the belief that you could get a just as capable and "cinematic" (whatever that means) image out of the Dragon 5K if you took as much care as a large production would in crafting the visuals.

    Edit: Exhibit A: See Daniel's post below. :)
    Last edited by Aaron Lochert; 04-26-2018 at 08:19 PM.
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    Senior Member Daniel Stilling's Avatar
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    I always like to point out that "Eyes In The Sky", British movie with Helen Mirren was shot on a Dragon, and they only used a 4K extraction. It's not about if you use 4, 5 or 6K out of the Dragon. It's how you light it, block it, production design it, act it... You get the point...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpenAqCdkh0
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Audy Erel's Avatar
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    Sensor size wise, Dragon 5K has the same dimension as Super 35mm 3-perf celluloid film. I think that is the format used by many 'cinematic' works in Hollywood. http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor
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  6. #6  
    Thanks guys, you’re totally right about the whole production value thing, lighting, setting and so on. And it’s not even the compression or the sensor size what I mean (you can shoot raw with a blackmagic cinema camera too) but even if you put a Blackmagic on a tripod next to a ARRI Alexa, shoot with both cameras, match the colors perfectly and would make two versions of the same movie I think people would feel that something is off with the Blackmagic version, don’t you think? Maybe it’s rolling shutter or how the camera catches the movement. I “guess” I could see the difference between a Scarlet-W Dragon and a Epic Dragon… But I don’t know since there are no such tests so far. :D
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Akin A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Behrens View Post
    Thanks guys, you’re totally right about the whole production value thing, lighting, setting and so on. And it’s not even the compression or the sensor size what I mean (you can shoot raw with a blackmagic cinema camera too) but even if you put a Blackmagic on a tripod next to a ARRI Alexa, shoot with both cameras, match the colors perfectly and would make two versions of the same movie I think people would feel that something is off with the Blackmagic version, don’t you think? Maybe it’s rolling shutter or how the camera catches the movement. I “guess” I could see the difference between a Scarlet-W Dragon and a Epic Dragon… But I don’t know since there are no such tests so far. :D
    A big part of the reason I switched from BMCC to Scarlet Dragon a few years ago was the motion.
    We can see stuff like that because we trained our eyes for it and we geek out on details, but the average person wouldn't see a difference between a mobile phone video and Monstro/Alexa 65, lol.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Behrens View Post
    Thanks guys, you’re totally right about the whole production value thing, lighting, setting and so on. And it’s not even the compression or the sensor size what I mean (you can shoot raw with a blackmagic cinema camera too) but even if you put a Blackmagic on a tripod next to a ARRI Alexa, shoot with both cameras, match the colors perfectly and would make two versions of the same movie I think people would feel that something is off with the Blackmagic version, don’t you think? Maybe it’s rolling shutter or how the camera catches the movement. I “guess” I could see the difference between a Scarlet-W Dragon and a Epic Dragon… But I don’t know since there are no such tests so far. :D
    Have a chat with Frank Glencairn and/or John Brawley, they are both heavy Alexa and UMP shooters (one of the reasons might be that these two camera's are easy to match).
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  9. #9  
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    It's a tough one and likely psychosomatic; sometimes I too think there's a difference to the cadence of the capture when comparing full sensor vs. cropped, but realistically it's probably just the post/finishing done on the film that's shooting with the highest-end versions of the camera.

    Case in point, Dan's Eyes in the Sky 4k extraction example. Fincher also always shoots with an extraction/crop in mind, including all his R1 and MX features (GWTDT was shot 4.5k WS with 4kWS extraction on R1mx, which taps out at 7.5:1 redcode), and they all look amazing.

    Curious though; aside from data rate, do Scarlets actually have a slower sensor readout/rolling shutter than R1s/Epics/Weapons?
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