Thread: Call for better audio recording on newer RED cameras.

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  1. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gardner View Post
    Well, after all of that, I did a job yesterday where post insisted on sound recorded to camera. So I humbly retract my staunchly anti sound on camera stance (although I am still morally oposed to it ;-)).

    Nick



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  2. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DiMaggio View Post
    does any one have experience with the xlr module red offers?

    steve
    I'm curious too as I'm hearing different reports of clean sound and beeps in audio after
    firmware updates.




    Quote Originally Posted by D Fuller View Post
    How good is Offhollywood's Omod?

    This one: the XLR2

    Does it solve this for DMC2?
    This would also be good to hear reports on. I'm aware that the earlier module had some
    issues related to getting good levels and playback of camera audio through the module among
    other issues. I think the OMOD-XLR was supposed to be the solution for pro field audio for the
    DSMC 2 cams but the first attempt was a bit mixed.

    My only gripe with the OMOD XLR design is that it only offers 2 XLRs and not 4 which I think is ideal and
    about the limit for field recording to camera (hanging more than 4 mics on a camera can be a bit much).

    While REDs can internally record 4 channels of audio, 2 are used up by the internal mics, and it's unclear if RED allows them to be bypassed for an audio module like the OMOD-XLR.

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  3. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hastings View Post
    I think a lot of you are missing the point.
    For instance it would be really nice if the module had some small knobs for adjusting the levels - similar to the old Betacams, prosumer camcorders, etc.
    There's a lot to be said in this above and it's one of the areas cinema camera manufactures miss big on.

    There almost seems to be this reluctance to put audio knobs on a cinema camera as if it goes against an unwritten "sacred" tradition of cinema camera design. It's like a remnant of when one had to acquire picture and sound separately.

    As unsexy as ENG cameras are in the production world, they are perhaps the most mature camera design for ergonomics and quickly covering the widest range of shooting scenarios in a single body shape.

    I also like RED's (and increasingly the industry's) modular approach as well since they allow scaling the camera as needed.

    If one can allow easy configuring of a camera in the compact DSMC size to a decent handheld ENG style solely with added modules
    (no unwieldy add ons like pre amps, shoulder plates, oversized hand grips, etc) it would be very ideal in creating a streamlined but effective camera system.

    This pic sort of hinted at such a config with RED (sans audio knobs in this pic) but it never quite seemed to be a reality. Or at least I never saw a camera in this config.

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  4. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post
    I'm curious too as I'm hearing different reports of clean sound and beeps in audio after
    firmware updates.

    ...

    This would also be good to hear reports on. I'm aware that the earlier module had some
    issues related to getting good levels and playback of camera audio through the module among
    other issues. I think the OMOD-XLR was supposed to be the solution for pro field audio for the
    DSMC 2 cams but the first attempt was a bit mixed.

    My only gripe with the OMOD XLR design is that it only offers 2 XLRs and not 4 which I think is ideal and
    about the limit for field recording to camera (hanging more than 4 mics on a camera can be a bit much).

    While REDs can internally record 4 channels of audio, 2 are used up by the internal mics, and it's unclear if RED allows them to be bypassed for an audio module like the OMOD-XLR.

    Brian Timmons
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    For my purposes, two mikes into the camera are enough. That lets me do an interview setup with good results. For me, more than two mics = more than I'm comfortable handling from camera, so there is at minimum an outboard device that's watched by someone else.

    But I totally see your point. In the DSMC1 world, there was an audio module that did exactly that--gave you 4 inputs to the camera. R1 as well.

    I think an ideal solution might be a module that has two direct inputs (line/mic switchable with phantom power) and a digital in for a multitrack from a mixer. Something like the Sound Devices units use.
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  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post

    This pic sort of hinted at such a config with RED (sans audio knobs in this pic) but it never quite seemed to be a reality. Or at least I never saw a camera in this config.

    Brian Timmons
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    I have almost exactly this setup. It's the original Epic M package + the Red Clutch. It's a bit front-heavy, but it works quite well. If you pay attention, you can run the camera all day using eight Redvolts, four chargers and hot-swapping.**

    **Disclaimer: That probably wouldn't work on an interview shoot, where the camera is recording nearly constantly, but I've done it on commercial shoots, where shorter takes are the norm. It does require a nearly-OCD level of attention to the batteries, so either having 12 of them or using V-locks is a safer bet.
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  6. #56  
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    Hmmm I'm not sure what all this talk is about. Buy the RedVolt Expander that has XLR inputs and get a decent feed from a sound tech's mixer. Done.
    I have this setup and after the audio glitches from Firmware 7.0.1 were fixed in 7.0.2, the audio in the r3d is exactly the same quality as the files from the sound guy.
    We have used it to mix with many times. I've never had a complaint from the audio house.
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  7. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Fuller View Post
    I have almost exactly this setup. It's the original Epic M package + the Red Clutch. It's a bit front-heavy, but it works quite well. If you pay attention, you can run the camera all day using eight Redvolts, four chargers and hot-swapping.**

    **Disclaimer: That probably wouldn't work on an interview shoot, where the camera is recording nearly constantly, but I've done it on commercial shoots, where shorter takes are the norm. It does require a nearly-OCD level of attention to the batteries, so either having 12 of them or using V-locks is a safer bet.
    I should have clarified that ideally that REDVOLT module would more likely be an audio module. I used the picture as a reference pic for a potential handheld ENG/EFP type config.

    Interesting about the balance though I guess I should have expected that. Perhaps RED could incorporate a sliding pad under the module.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Bousquet View Post
    Hmmm I'm not sure what all this talk is about. Buy the RedVolt Expander that has XLR inputs and get a decent feed from a sound tech's mixer. Done.
    I have this setup and after the audio glitches from Firmware 7.0.1 were fixed in 7.0.2, the audio in the r3d is exactly the same quality as the files from the sound guy.
    We have used it to mix with many times. I've never had a complaint from the audio house.
    The quest we're on in this thread is better single system audio options (XLR connectors and at least up to 4, audio dials) and performance (clean sound, phantom power support) when directly plugging mics into a RED since this is a style of production that for some is pretty common.

    Naturally, opinions vary but this is the gist of it.

    You're describing audio coming from a second audio system but also being fed to the RED which is a very good (best of both worlds) approach but a little different than Single System recording.

    Single System is emphasized because there are common situations where production does not have a separate audio person (various reasons usually budgetary) and the audio is recorded directly into the camera and there have been reported issues getting clean sound in such a scenario.

    Good to know that the latest firmware update cleaned up the audio glitches for you.

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  9. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Fuller View Post
    Nobody here in this thread is devaluing sound. You're not listening. Everybody in this thread is asking for better sound.
    They're asking for better sound in camera.

    Yes, that is indeed implicitly devaluing the real worth of sound. Rather than treating it separately.

    As sure, it is always nice for a camera to handle audio better, but the motivation here appears to be wrong. The theme seems to be to get rid of the sound recordist and to be trying to do it purely in camera instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by D Fuller View Post
    It's lovely that you work in crews of 10 all the time and have the budget to have a person to cover every job. In that situation of course sound should be its own department. This thread is not about that. It's about shooting with one or two people (yes, that happens in the real world) and not having to deal with more different devices than one or two people can reliably deal with and still come back with good recordings. You could do that with Red One. I do it often with my Epic Dragon DMSC1. Why is it unreasonable to ask for that from DSMC2?

    And for the record, yes, in a one or two person crew, the DOP has to pull his own focus and do his own lighting. Horrors!!
    Seems you missed a point of my post, I wasn't saying I always work in crews of 10+ people (I do, but also in much smaller crews as well). But that crews with 10+ people should have not one but at least two people in the sound department, however I see that happening far too rarely. And yes, if you have a crew of a quarter or even a third of that then one of those people should be the sound recordist.
    http://IronFilm.co.nz/Sound/ (Sound Recordist based in Auckland, NZ. Happy to travel too)
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  10. #60  
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    Well once again... Get the RedVolt expander and you'll pretty much have all of that (2 XLRs with phantom power is included) with the exception of 4 XLR inputs with physical dials (instad of gain controlled through the screen).
    Hell even the Alexa SXT has a single 5 pin 2 channel XLR input. I can't even think of a camera that has 4 XLR inputs. Maybe a SONY?

    I have recorded countless interviews as a single operator with a dialog mic (or shotgun) on a c-stand boom to channel 1 and a Lav on channel 2, both going directly into the RedVolt without a mixer and still have had prefect results. As long as your gain is set well.

    I mean yeah I'm on your side. I'd love all those things too but it just sounds unheard of in the film camera industry. So it's not just a RED issue.
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