Thread: Thoughts on 8K Epic w vs. 5K Epic Gemini?

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  1. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by adam brennan View Post
    Thank you. I was told by red or maybe I misunderstood them, but when I shoot at lower resolutions I am cropping the sensor or utilizing a small area of the sensor and that is why I maybe seeing noise in the footage. The noise would be worse the lower the resolution. So you're saying that is not correct?
    The trick is that you should not shoot lower resolutions if you are not forced to do so to get the frame rates needed. Even if your delivery format is HD you should still strive to max out the camera resolution at the sensor level. Then you can choose to downscale that in camera using proxy recording or use compression to get your file sizes smaller in Mb´s but still being as big as possible in number of pixels.

    The sensor is relative to the lens used it´s not right to say a bigger or smaller sensor is better than or worse. Same as you can not claim that more pixels are always better than less pixels, as the quality of the pixels also comes in account.

    Helium has a more dense pixels array than gemini but at a pixel to pixel level it looks like gemini holds up better and also comes with dual iso.

    So both cameras have their advantages, helium max out at 8k within the image circle of S35 which is the strength of that camera. Gemini got dual iso and managed to shoot a very noise free image at quite extreme iso. Gemini also have less density so it can record a larger sensor area at a higher frame rate without cropping. And for those that find 5k being enough that's a benefit.
    Björn Benckert
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  2. #12  
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    I'm leaning toward Gemini, but would love some close up people R3Ds in regular & high ISO mode to play around with to compare with the R3Ds of the 8k samples on RED.com

    Those 8k files grade so well, and look amazing. It'd be great to be able to do the same with Gemini.
    Gemini
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    A: If high frame rate, low noise or smaller files is very important = Gemini

    B: If higher image quality, future proof and being able to crop is more important = Helium

    We shot wildlife so the Helium was a great choice. We can crop and get extremely sharp images that are much more future proof.
    /Andreas
    www.ObergWildlife.com- Natural History Filmmaking
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasOberg View Post
    A: If high frame rate, low noise or smaller files is very important = Gemini

    B: If higher image quality, future proof and being able to crop is more important = Helium

    We shot wildlife so the Helium was a great choice. We can crop and get extremely sharp images that are much more future proof.
    /Andreas
    Hello,
    But Wildlife photography often takes place early morning or late evening.So low light capabilities are important.
    This choice is a hard one...
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    For overall usability, Gemini.

    If you need 8K and dynamic reframes, Helium.
    Nick Morrison
    Founder, Director & Lead Creative
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    smallgiant.tv
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Hurcan Yilmazer's Avatar
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    Im thinking to upgrade my epic w to Helium 8k and my dragon to gemini. Do you think it is a good call?
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member AndreasOberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Pilato View Post
    Hello,
    But Wildlife photography often takes place early morning or late evening.So low light capabilities are important.
    This choice is a hard one...
    Yes, low light is absolutely useful for wildlife. I talked to one of the cinematographers from Planet Earth 2 and he recommended Helium since that was their standard for the flexibility in post due to the resolution. They actually used non Red cameras if they wanted low light possibilities. Some other benefits you get with Helium is that you can crop more so you basically get a longer zoom "for free". The more you crop the more visible the noise will be of course, but you can do a lot with Neat Video to reduce noise.

    The reality is that it is not an easy choice. If you do slow motion at dusk then I would prefer Gemini, for everything during the daytime I would prefer Helium. If you film in a forest and its dim I would prefer Gemini.
    /Andreas
    Last edited by AndreasOberg; 05-24-2018 at 09:19 AM.
    www.ObergWildlife.com- Natural History Filmmaking
    www.WildlifeRescueMovie.com- Saving the animals of the Rainforest!
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurcan Yilmazer View Post
    Im thinking to upgrade my epic w to Helium 8k and my dragon to gemini. Do you think it is a good call?
    Best of both worlds, that's what I'd do unless you frequently shoot multicamera productions.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurcan Yilmazer View Post
    Im thinking to upgrade my epic w to Helium 8k and my dragon to gemini. Do you think it is a good call?
    Well duh if you had two bodies ;)
    RED DSMC2 GEMINI #011030
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  10. #20  
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    i have two bodies but want to keep them the same, since many times do multicam. It is a hard decision but think will stick with Helium for both. 60 fps at 8k is enough full frame is enough for me.
    DSMC2 Helium 1402
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