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  1. #681  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank C. Wagner View Post
    Jarred, I guess you woke up „one day“ (must be last week I guess) with some really bad cash flow records from HQ and decided to collect some money by selling upgrades. This was a panic reaction and not planned, because otherwise RED would not ship even Gemini without the new board... I'll take a screenshot before this got delete again :)
    Hey Frank I understand you're upset, but lets have a little tact here. I'm not sure what your objective is.
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  #682  
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank C. Wagner View Post
    Jarred, I guess you woke up „one day“ (must be last week I guess) with some really bad cash flow records from HQ and decided to collect some money by selling upgrades. This was a panic reaction and not planned, because otherwise RED would not ship even Gemini without the new board... I'll take a screenshot before this got delete again :)
    If you have been following the Gemini thread where I have been talking about this for more than a month, where every week I have been talking about lowering the prices and apologizing that it was taking longer than it should because we needed to work on get it lower, then youll realize that your comment is not just wrong but offensive. . Sorry you were not paying attention to that thread.. It's not your responsibility to follow along but I suggest before you make reckless acusations like that you check your facts.
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  3. #683  
    Senior Member Matthew Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    "And we will reward the level of compassion accordingly"

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  4. #684  
    Senior Member Stefano Ceccon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Eisenbarth View Post
    Stefano, I spent 80.000 + vat and yes I was also shocked when I read the news.
    But let's be honest here for a second; we're getting killer deals all the time. This time
    persons like you and I might be on the wrong end of the deal but RED has always taken care
    of us and they will continue to do so. And quite honestly if a price drop of a camera you bought ruined your business - what I reject to believe - the problem might not be the pricing policy of RED but your business itself. It's not like they went into your bank account and took money from you. Your camera hasn't become more expensive all of a sudden, you spent the exact amount of money as before. And I can't talk for your clients but my clients will not pay less now. They don't really care for retail prices.

    All I'm saying is: we'll be good. RED's always taken care of us. Let's all just relax and enjoy our cameras. :)
    Now, who buys half the price of the ex weapon. Do jobs at half price compared to yesterday. Then, since the DSMC2 Helium is cheap, so many buy it or upgrade it. So it increases competition and decreases even more the price of the works.
    So it is not possible for me to compete with this mass. I have a mortgage.
    The only solution for me in Italy is to return to being the only private owner of a top RED range. But too expensive to do it.
    I can not even sell it now. An individual does not amortize 60,000 + more accessories in two years.
    So I will have a drastic decrease of work with my Red.

    If you could put a Monstro on my White Red for 5,000 euros I would be happy and work well
    Last edited by Stefano Ceccon; 05-25-2018 at 04:51 PM.
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  5. #685  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stefano Ceccon View Post
    Now, who buys half the price of the ex weapon. Do jobs at half price compared to yesterday. Then, since the DSMC2 Helium is cheap, so many buy it or upgrade it. So it increases competition and decreases even more the price of the works.
    So it is not possible for me to compete with this mass. I have a mortgage.
    The only solution for me in Italy is to return to being the only private owner of a top RED range. But too expensive to do it.
    I can not even sell it now. An individual does not amortize 60,000 in two years.
    So I will have a drastic decrease of work with my Red.
    Again I can't talk for you or your clients. But the clients I work for won't go like "ah there's a different guy with the same camera at a cheaper price, let's work with him from now on". They work with me because they are happy with the results they get. We've set up conditions and we stick to them. Wether my camera has a 80.000 euros retail price or 55.000 euros. I'm a single person also. Financing this thing over 4 years which means by the time a paid for it DSMC3 might already be a thing. It certainly will. At point x I've made a decision to make an investment. There is no guarantee that prices will stay the same. Prices drop, that's how it has always been. Yes it was a drastic price drop, but does it help anyone running in circles, both middlefingers up in the air screaming 'f*ck jarred, f*ck RED' (not that you do that but others do)? No it doesn't. You'll be fine Stefano, you'll keep making money. You've got a damn nice camera and you got to the point of being able to buy it because obviously you're good at what you do. That's why this won't be the end of you.
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  #686  
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank C. Wagner View Post
    Not followed the thread that’s true, because I not expected a price drop for a fresh launched product. So you announced this a month ago??? But why it is so hard to get in contact with Gemini customers by a simple mail and to offer a solution Jarred? It would be so much easier for both of us than having this discussion here. I appreciate your direct communication, but I can not follow all your posts to get informed Jarred. Would love to have the time, but this is sadly not the case.
    Yes.. as I said, it's not your responsibility to follow every post. I assume you actually have work to do. I just pointed it out because you accused me of making this up all up last week and that is just not correct.. it's pretty unfair. I have been drilling my team on this for months and I entered the discussion with users right here on this forum for over a monthg before I did anything. Something no other company does.

    It's not our responsiblity to refund everyone that made a purchase in the past because something new came out or our prices changed. Every company that makes any technical product releases new products and they change pricing... thats the foundation of product evolution. If a new product isn't better than the last or the same features for a lower price then there is no reason to release a new product. Many people here already pointed to every other camera company that matters for doing the same thing. And for the most part none of those companies looked back. But we are looking back.. and we are trying to help our customers with past purchases, even if the given rule in this industry and most others is not to.
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  7. #687  
    Senior Member Brad Grimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Eisenbarth View Post
    Prices drop, that's how it has always been. Yes it was a drastic price drop, but does it help anyone running in circles, both middlefingers up in the air screaming 'f*ck jarred, f*ck RED' (not that you do that but others do)? No it doesn't. You'll be fine Stefano, you'll keep making money. You've got a damn nice camera and you got to the point of being able to buy it because obviously you're good at what you do. That's why this won't be the end of you.
    These things happen all the time around here.. RED makes a splash, people cheer, people get angry.. and then life goes on, and cameras keep a rolling. The difference now is that RED actually has the Alexia killer, The Monstro creates the best digital image, ever, And its in reach for many more people. Lets all enjoy the weekend and then get back to making art.
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  8. #688  
    Senior Member Stefano Ceccon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Eisenbarth View Post
    Again I can't talk for you or your clients. But the clients I work for won't go like "ah there's a different guy with the same camera at a cheaper price, let's work with him from now on". They work with me because they are happy with the results they get. We've set up conditions and we stick to them. Wether my camera has a 80.000 euros retail price or 55.000 euros. I'm a single person also. Financing this thing over 4 years which means by the time a paid for it DSMC3 might already be a thing. It certainly will. At point x I've made a decision to make an investment. There is no guarantee that prices will stay the same. Prices drop, that's how it has always been. Yes it was a drastic price drop, but does it help anyone running in circles, both middlefingers up in the air screaming 'f*ck jarred, f*ck RED' (not that you do that but others do)? No it doesn't. You'll be fine Stefano, you'll keep making money. You've got a damn nice camera and you got to the point of being able to buy it because obviously you're good at what you do. That's why this won't be the end of you.
    This is what happens in Italy!!!! a lot of crisis here, and agencies choose the lowest price, or the best quality to sell to their customers with a top camera with DP owner (pay less rent RED and look for a DP)
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  9. #689  
    Senior Member Stefano Ceccon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Grimm View Post
    These things happen all the time around here.. RED makes a splash, people cheer, people get angry.. and then life goes on, and cameras keep a rolling. The difference now is that RED actually has the Alexia killer, The Monstro creates the best digital image, ever, And its in reach for many more people. Lets all enjoy the weekend and then get back to making art.
    Here it is NOT angry for the lower prices, happy with this. Red has always done!
    The argument is that they do not help those who invested in Weapon Monstro, update too too expensive.

    Epic-w 30.000 upgrade to DSMC2 Helium (ex Weapon 50.000) only 5.000
    Weapon 60.000 upgrade Monstro 54.000 "only" 39.000. For me it is not right.
    This makes me very angry. Do not help private individuals who believe in the high-range Red
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  10. #690  
    Senior Member Zeb B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    We accept that.. but a point many are forgetting that many have brought up is many are making an inaccurate comparison and only using one half the argument. " RED lowered pricing and Sony, Canon and ARRI would never do this to us! Damn you RED! "

    When the reality is Arri has done this. They have dropped camera prices buy 40% overnight. Canon dropped their C300 in half. TWICE. Sony has done the same. Let's not forget the F23/F35 debacle.

    There is such a big difference though. We actually give a shit. And unlike the above examples, we didn't lower prices because we have a new shiny toy. We lowered prices because I woke up one day and realized our cameras were more expensive than they should be. It strayed from the foundation of why we started this company.

    We buckled down and made it work. We shrunk our team and unified our product and joined our camera business with one of the best supply chain companies in the world to help make things cheaper.

    Sure.. we could of just shut the fuck up and increased our margins and quietly laughed all the way to the bank like everyone else does... but we didn't. We passed that on to our customers. Because that's why we are here. It's not about the money. And that's the irony, because that's why people are upset.

    We have done this many times before. Every single one of you has taken advantage of our dedication to making the best cameras as affordable as possible so the most amount of people no matter how rich they are can have the best tools to make their art without compromise. Even those that bought cameras a week ago paid less than they would of. Because that's how it works. And even if you are not a RED customer... I think it's safe to say we made the rest of the industry change to your benefit.

    Its also why we are dealing with you all one by one. Because we don't need to do anything. We really don't. Some of you get it , some of you don't. And we will reward the level of compassion accordingly.
    As someone who has owned a manufacturing company in an intensely competitive environment, I understand what you are saying and doing. Making complex electronic gear is one hella hard way to make money. Those here who have tried get that. Those who have been Passengers not the Pilot wont get it. Anyone who is surprised that the cost of electronic gear is relentlessly driven down does not have a basic understanding of economics. This fact is so 1980s Dell Computer . . . I mean pick up a book and read ;-)
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