Thread: Request : IPP2 Support for Red Rocket-X

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  1. #1 Request : IPP2 Support for Red Rocket-X 
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    @Red,

    Even with beefy workstations with high end CPU & GPU's - a considerable amount of system resources is consumed Debayering 8K R3Ds.

    For top end Mac systems, or systems with AMD's GPU's - they still greatly benefit from RED-ROCKET-X acceleration.

    NLE and Colour grading applications still support accelerated workflows incorporating the RRX (Pr,FCPx,Avid,Davinci) - because it make their tools more effective; increasing frame rates and allowing CPU & GPUs to be dedicated to also-consumptive effects processing.

    RED currently sell new RED-ROCKET-Xs on their store front. ( http://www.red.com/store/products/red-rocket-x )

    As the RED community migrates from 6K LEGACY to 8K IPP2 - is there a case to upgrade the RRX - one last time - to support IPP2?

    AJ
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  2. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antony Newman View Post
    @Red,

    Even with beefy workstations with high end CPU & GPU's - a considerable amount of system resources is consumed Debayering 8K R3Ds.

    For top end Mac systems, or systems with AMD's GPU's - they still greatly benefit from RED-ROCKET-X acceleration.

    NLE and Colour grading applications still support accelerated workflows incorporating the RRX (Pr,FCPx,Avid,Davinci) - because it make their tools more effective; increasing frame rates and allowing CPU & GPUs to be dedicated to also-consumptive effects processing.

    RED currently sell new RED-ROCKET-Xs on their store front. ( http://www.red.com/store/products/red-rocket-x )

    As the RED community migrates from 6K LEGACY to 8K IPP2 - is there a case to upgrade the RRX - one last time - to support IPP2?

    AJ
    For the price of 1 RRX you can buy 2 eGPU boxes + 2 Titan V gpu's or 3 eGPU boxes + 3 GTX1080ti's(or 3 VEGA FE's).
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Thankyou for the suggestion.

    The RRX already has the Heavy Lifting horsepower that I need.

    Rather than OBSOLETE the RED-ROCKET-X before its time - why not reconfigure TWO of the THREE banks so that it can process IPP2 footage and allow the hardware to support the increasing community that are adopting IPP2?

    AJ
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    GPU : NVIDIA Quadro GP100 : 16GB HBM2 : 7,489 (about the price of an RRX)
    CPU : 2 x 12 Core : 3GHz XEON

    Blackmagic reckons that it takes > 24 XEON cores of CPU working flat to DECOMPRESS 8K R3Ds.
    On his system - the GPU would have been able to do more DEBAYERING (ie use more than 46% of the GPU) .. if the the CPU's were not already bottlenecking.

    March 2018 : https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...=70646#p395688

    My read on this would : If a RED-ROCKET-X was used in that system and if it also used to DEBAYER, the CPU load and GPU load would have been greatly reduced - enabling higher frame rates and system resources elsewhere (eg to show effects in real time).

    AJ
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    August the 13th 2018 you can get yourself an AMD TR2 2990X with 32 cores at 3,4..4 GHz for around $ 1500.
    The titan V (14.8 TFlops fp32) is around $ 3000 and a lot faster than the GP100 (10.3 TFlops fp32).
    With these kinds of GPU speeds the memory bandwith of the GPU's is the limiting factor with GTX1080ti's, Titan X(p), Vega FE's, etc...

    When you want to use a Resolve version that only supports 32 threads with R3D you can turn off the SMT(Simultaneous multithreading) of the 32c/64t threadripper.

    The thread you mentioned is one thing, the answer from the BMD guy is what worries me.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    It is great news that AMD are torpedoing Intel’s desire to keep on sellng high price single socket CPUs with deliberately crippled performance : https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/07...socket-threat/

    As Apple have committed to releaseing a new machine in 2019 - it might even have enough GPU memory (12GB is not enough in R15b6) to Debayer a transition between two 8K VV R3D clips. And will have to be competitive with a 32-48? Core Rome - which is also fantastic.

    However - if any of these configurations was able to process faster by OFFLOADING the processing of IPP2 R3D footage - and you had a RED-ROCKET-X ... would you want to Leverage the dedicated Hardware acceleration it could offer?

    My point is that if the RED-ROCKET-X is technically able to Debayer 8K VV Monstro Footage - then this IS something that would benefit the RED comunity.

    AJ
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
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    Our Red Rocket-X works with Monstro 8K footage using ipp2 just fine.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Meyer View Post
    Our Red Rocket-X works with Monstro 8K footage using ipp2 just fine.
    Decompressing, de-bayering or both?
    How is the de-bayer quality?
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    DJ Mayer,

    My (likely limited) understanding is that the RED-ROCKET-X performs the following steps:
    1) Decrypting the data (as the R3D format is protected)
    2) Decompressinging the wavelets
    3) DEBAYERing ONLY DRAGON Footage (but NOT IPP2 used by Monstro & Helium)

    This first two stages are CPU heavy.
    The DEBAYERING stage is GPU heavy

    After the R3D are debayered into a 2K or 4K timeline - there is no extra processing overhead when ingesting 8K IPP2 or 6K DRAGON footage.

    However as 8K IPP2 R3D have >80% more pixels to DEBAYER than the old 6K DRAGON, and this not currently being handled by the RED-ROCKET-X, it causes a lot of GPU resources and memory to be tied up debayering.

    If the Red Rocket could ONLY support DRAGON debayering or IPP2 DEBAYERING - it could be argued that IPP2 has a greater need (due there being 80% more pixels) - and it would also promote adoption of REDs (Gs) latest and greatest colour pipeline - as this was the workflow that is fully accelerated in all the NLEs.

    AJ
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  10. #10  
    As the RED community migrates from 6K LEGACY to 8K IPP2 - is there a case to upgrade the RRX - one last time - to support IPP2?
    Perhaps but I suspect it not economical for Red to persue ... also RRX is currently happy with the really hard part of a r3d decode (the de-wavelet)...so in reality only laptop TB3 systems would significantly benefit from a new IPP2 RRX.

    As I am not a computer lover I am always slightly confused how successful sexy GPU marketing has convinced everyone that more GPU is the solution to r3d decoding. If you build a computer today that when decoding monstro files pegged both the GPU and CPU at near 100% the spend on GPU would be peanuts -and spending more is only of value for complex gradeing duties...

    Until r3d's codec is changed to something else or the de-waveleting is moved to GPU we re stuck with big CPU bills or slow decoding. No amount of computer fetishising will change that!

    I have some ARRI LF footage here and it decodes very very fast and you need nearly no CPU to do it... also sexy 8k GPUs would actually make it faster.

    RED's initial greatest asset 'Redcode' is still going strong but due to unfortunately only modest increase in CPU (but massive bandwidth and GPU advances) over the last 10years it is not the asset I suspect Red had hoped for...

    My hope is that Red are (behind the scenes) spending serious development resources on improvements to r3d decoding speeds to make r3ds the wonder feature it was..
    Michael Lindsay

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