Thread: So is it true that the Gemini produces a soft picture? Do you regret not going to 8K?

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  1. #1 So is it true that the Gemini produces a soft picture? Do you regret not going to 8K? 
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    I hear different things about the quality of the picture on the Gemini. I hear it produces a soft image even when your subject is in focus. So what's the verdict? Do you Gemini owners wish you went 8K helium instead?
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    The best way to find out is to shoot a chart.

    https://www.image-engineering.de/lib...on-test-charts
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    Senior Member Aaron Lochert's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I would consider Gemini "soft", though it definitely isn't harsh:


    Right click open in new tab for full 4K view, and here's without grain (I personally like the grain): https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1914/...935bffaf_o.png

    For a 4K delivery, the 8K of Helium and Monstro are going to have much better oversampling capability. But soft? I wouldn't say so.
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    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam brennan View Post
    I hear different things about the quality of the picture on the Gemini. I hear it produces a soft image even when your subject is in focus. So what's the verdict? Do you Gemini owners wish you went 8K helium instead?
    Umm no. We've tested Gemini footage and it looks plenty sharp. But also organic. It feels as sharp as 6K Dragon (or MORE SO), but it's so clean and good we felt it was easier to reframe on than Dragon as well.

    So it's very sharp.

    But it also has so much DR it has an organic quality that reminds me of Monstro.

    A friend calls it "Mini Monstro" and I tend to agree.

    I think it's a winner.
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    Do you have examples of Gemini being soft?
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    Senior Member Fabricio Morato's Avatar
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    I've seen some 4k videos online shot on Gemini that looked a little soft on a 4k monitor. But it might have been a focus issue. Don't know. Also I haven't tested the Gemini yet to have a personal opinion about resolution.
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    Thanks everyone for the input. The picture posted looks pretty sharp. I think on the Red website there was a comparison of 4K & 8K. The 4K on the Gemini looked soft. But I might have been reading it wrong.
    Red Monstro 8K VV | Red Gemini 5K | Kippertie Revolva
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    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Lochert View Post
    I'm not sure if I would consider Gemini "soft", though it definitely isn't harsh:


    Right click open in new tab for full 4K view, and here's without grain (I personally like the grain): https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1914/...935bffaf_o.png
    This sensor is just beautiful. It's detailed but not clinical. I want it. :-)
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Yes 8K Helium probably feels a smidge sharper than Gemini, it's subtle.

    Don't forget Gemini and Helium are THE SAME SIZE SENSOR (across), just Helium is 8K with tiny pixels, and Gemini is 5K with much larger pixels.

    There are pro's and cons to both.

    8K tiny pixels down sample so cleanly to 4K that noise gets minimized and blacks clean up.

    Larger 5K pixels on the other hand by virtue of their size make them better suited for low light and wider DR.

    Keep in mind Gemini has the largest pixels of any DSMC2 camera. They are the same size as Sony Venice. So it's no surprise folks are seeing incredible DR at 800 ISO, and such clean performance in lowlights. Big pixels can do wonders.

    You know who lives by that? Arri. It should be no surprise that Alexa has massive pixels (but conversely less K's).

    I think Gemini is one of the most interesring things RED has done in years. It may have the best DR by pixel of any RED ever. And it wouldn't shock me if RED is working on a GIGANTO 8K Gemini sensor that's close to 65mm Imax. It would make sense.
    Nick Morrison
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