Thread: So is it true that the Gemini produces a soft picture? Do you regret not going to 8K?

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  1. #11  
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    They probably have a test on CML. You may have to shoot a test chart and do some pixel peeping.

    Major thing to keep in mind is to treat digital cameras like film stock when doing these comparisons, and that it depends on your taste.

    I would personally love to see Gemini footage shot at night in low light mode where we can actually see the richness of the blacks (like on a Mysterium, Dragon, Helium, Alexa, Monstro, or VariCam) and not the black point shifted because there is not enough ambient light.
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  2. #12  
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    As others have stated, the Gemini has a very organic feel to it. The DR is probably the contributing factor to that. My personal Gemini is as sharp as Dragons that I have shot with, and I've had nothing but a positive experience with it!
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    And it wouldn't shock me if RED is working on a GIGANTO 8K Gemini sensor that's close to 65mm Imax. It would make sense.
    I still want the Monstro S35mm 6k sensor... We are aproaching Christmas, no?
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    I still want the Monstro S35mm 6k sensor... We are aproaching Christmas, no?
    Or a FF Gemini with a 6k resolution for great 4k output. When you don't want to use hocus pocus de-bayer algorithms and some room for image stabilization (4096xsqrt2x2160xsqrt ~ 5793x3055 -> 6144x3240(41.68mm image circle) FF has 43.27 mm image circle would be nice. (or 6000x4000 when you want the same aspect ratios as FF stills)

    Monstro 6k would still have an image circle of 34.73 mm which is way larger than S35 mm (24.89x13.89mm ~ 28.50mm image circle)
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member andrewhake's Avatar
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    Whether or not footage is "soft' is going to be way more dependent on the lens than the image sensor.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Shaeden Gallegos's Avatar
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    If you are referring to the photo of the woman on the beach, that was shot with Atlas anamorphic lenses. With the edge focus fall-off, it could definitely appear softer; but in reality the file is sharp :)

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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewhake View Post
    Whether or not footage is "soft' is going to be way more dependent on the lens than the image sensor.
    Looking at this article https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/201...-good-sensors/ you're right about that and ALEXA 65 makes a lot of sense for thru 4k-DCI output when pixel-peeping.
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  8. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Yes 8K Helium probably feels a smidge sharper than Gemini, it's subtle.

    Don't forget Gemini and Helium are THE SAME SIZE SENSOR (across), just Helium is 8K with tiny pixels, and Gemini is 5K with much larger pixels.

    There are pro's and cons to both.
    They are not the same size. Here are technical specs:

    Helium

    SENSOR TYPE HELIUM 35.4 Megapixel CMOS
    EFFECTIVE PIXELS 8192 4320
    SENSOR SIZE 29.90 mm 15.77 mm (Diagonal: 33.80 mm)
    DYNAMIC RANGE 16.5+ stops


    Gemini

    SENSOR TYPE GEMINI 15.4 Megapixel Dual Sensitivity CMOS
    EFFECTIVE PIXELS 5120 3000
    SENSOR SIZE 30.72 mm 18 mm (Diagonal: 35.61 mm)
    DYNAMIC RANGE 16.5+ stops

    Source: https://www.red.com/dsmc2
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  9. #19  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    The Gemini is not a "soft" image, but everything RED makes provides smooth capture of detail. Yeah, I'm going there.

    However, when you take specific format sizes into account and possible captured resolution at that format size, I.e. the same image plane dimensions, the coversation is different.

    To that point:
    - RED Helium = 3.65 micron pixel pitch, is currently the highest resolving sensor
    - RED Monstro = 5 micron pixel pitch, second highest resolving
    - RED Gemini = 6 micron pixel pitch, and in third place.

    So essentially on a per format basis you would be shooting at different resolutions. In the case of S35 imaging all three sensors are capable of creating a nice 4K finish in that format size.

    And for the curious, film typically lands somewhere between Monstro and Gemini resolving-wise, though Monstro in side by side does outresolve it. You could make the argument that Gemini has a very film-like pixel perhaps.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member PatrickFaith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    ...
    And for the curious, film typically lands somewhere between Monstro and Gemini resolving-wise, though Monstro in side by side does outresolve it. You could make the argument that Gemini has a very film-like pixel perhaps.
    Phil, I'm going to be mixing footage with monstro+hollywood_blackmagic_1/4 + arri_master_prime_ana_50mm with gemini+35mm_MP_ana. I was thinking of just leaving off the hollywood blackmagic filter when shooting with the gemini, also pondering going to a 1/8. As a side note, this is for quadhd, also the gemini is only for pickup and 2ndary shooting, especially with practicals/minimal lighting, while the monstro is being used as the main camera. I btw can't see how anyone could call gemini soft at quadhd, I btw won't be reframing the gemini, but the monstro footage that it will be cut to often get's reframed/cropped in post.
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