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  1. #131  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Gleeson View Post
    Internal ND - Cameras like the Venice demonstrate internal ND can offer real advantages with little penalty
    Shallow flange depth - This is a no brainer as it costs nothing to push the sensor forward and there are so many advantages from a new generation of glass to adding Modules behind existing longer flange depth glass
    Faster UI - My experience with the 8K Monstro can be so frustrating when it comes to focus as 1920x1080 doesn't cut it in a 8K world and the 1:1 zoom in function is so slow its frankly embarrassing on a high end cinema camera.
    4K monitoring output- see Above
    Support for 1:1 zoom on selected monitor paths even during recording - See Above
    Quieter fans - While each generation has got quieter (My Epic MX nickname was the "hairdryer") DSMC3 needs to be quiter again
    Dual readout sensor like Sony and Panasonic - This technology allows more choice and flexibility
    I should have put this first but real and powerful Autofocus is needed as demonstrated by the Sony FX9 and Canon C500mk2. This is a potential Achilles heel for Red as Sony and Canon are leveraging their R&D and experience with DSLR AF with tools like advanced face and eye tracking tools for focus. Do not misunderstand me as I am not suggesting AF that works idependantly of the operator like some dumb old video camera. I'm talking about powerful tools that allow the operator to decide where focus should be and the camera does it. I would guess that Sony FX9 AF tech will end up in the Venice Mk2 and when people understand just how "efficient" this tool can be cameras with only manual focus will be behind the eight ball. Red should not ignore this issue in 2020

    All of the above!

    I think I posted here before but let me add my 2 cents again. I think with the Komodo Rolling, the big Brothers should be getting the much deserved attention at the same time:

    1- Internal ND's a must. Or a 1st Party Kipertie option for different mounts.
    2- Different intelligent mounts for EF, R , Leica, Nikon, PL , L , Leica M and even the Sony E mount.
    3- If a Medium format sensor is coming, allow for fuji and Hasselblad intelligent lens operation
    4- In Body Stabilization. This I think will be the most difficult part of the DSMC3 body, but I have faith Red can do it.
    5- Small form factor and modular. I understand the need for a Ranger, but the current DSMC2 form factor allows absolute versatility too. Please keep the modularity concept. Can be introduced on par with a Ranger option
    6- More Frame Rates at 8K .
    7- A better stills extraction workflow both on camera and in Redcine X. Internal Hyperlapses settings.
    6- Upgrade path to include sensor transition for Monstro users. I don't need 12K or medium format, I just need more frame rates, internal ND and all the advantages of a closer/shallower flange depth and new body.

    Again, can't wait ! Completely on board!
    Sérgio Perez

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  2. #132  
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    12K

    Full Frame

    $10K.
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  3. #133  
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    If the OLPF's are still interchangeable, might be interesting to have a Tungsten and a Daylight OLPF. Maybe Tungsten gets a small gain boost and the RED channel slowed down a bit. enough gain to help help the blue channel in orange low light, but not so much gain that it hurts Dynamic Range.

    We are well past that point in development, I am sure. But while we are wishing. That said, the STHP filter is doing some very nice things in tungsten.
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  4. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by James Sielaff View Post
    If the OLPF's are still interchangeable, might be interesting to have a Tungsten and a Daylight OLPF. Maybe Tungsten gets a small gain boost and the RED channel slowed down a bit. enough gain to help help the blue channel in orange low light, but not so much gain that it hurts Dynamic Range.

    We are well past that point in development, I am sure. But while we are wishing. That said, the STHP filter is doing some very nice things in tungsten.
    It would be cool if they would borrow from ENG cameras with a dual turret filter system. They have four slots of ND in the 1st/front turret and 4 slots for color correction in the 2nd/rear turret, but update it slightly. Keep the front four slots for ND and the rear could be different OLPF's and color correction to fine tune for say 3200K or 5600K.
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  5. #135  
    Senior Member Zack Birlew's Avatar
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    After seeing some Komodo videos, I can clearly see a problem forming with RED's operations and with the trio of the Canon R5, Sony A7S III, and Blackmagic Ursa 12K coming out, it gives a good indication on what RED needs to do with DSMC3.

    1. RED needs to pick up the pace and release a camera. Sure, there was a progression from R1 to DSMC then DSMC2 but now it's basically coming down to the same camera box on repeat, Komodo is just a little stripped down with another 6K sensor tossed in. A super lightweight model should have been done and over by now and DSMC3 will need to stay on track and focus.

    2. DSMC3 needs to be 8K minimum and have 12K/16K/24K on the high end with clean ISO 3200 performance at the least. Some may say that it's too soon for beyond 8K to be a priority but Blackmagic showed that it can be done right now and they probably have a pocket version already in the works, we are at that time.

    3. DSMC3 needs to be cheaper than RED cameras have ever been. Yes, Komodo fits nicely into a starting camera but we need an 8K step up camera and a 12K+ camera to aim for and for not much more than Blackmagic's offerings. I might surmise that things could drop down to the $20,000 level for the highest camera again and there would be a $10,000 and $17,500 option on top of Komodo and the 8K step up camera which could be 8K for $8K.

    4. If DSMC3 can't compete on resolution beyond 8K or 12K, then it's probably time for RED to go full frame and even medium format! With video-capable medium format cameras like Fuji's and Hasselblad's new offerings and the Alexa 65 being used more often, it's showing that there's a growing market for medium format cinematography and RED could get on it and at higher resolutions than 4K and 6K.

    5. DSMC3 needs 4K+ monitoring and/or very high zoom ratio punch-in options because no one is able to tell if the camera is 100% in focus when using wide lenses and for the most critical VFX work you need absolute clear focus. External monitor manufacturers can only do so much digital punch in on the monitor feed and it would be much better if the camera could do it internally first. My Canon 5D Mark II had a 10x punch in that was great and my Sony A7S only goes to 7x which helps a little but my Pocket 4K annoyed me with its 2x zoom which is not very helpful at all (I haven't checked to see if a new firmware may have fixed this yet, been stuck in post). My RED One MX had 720p and we only missed focus slightly on a few shots but that required so much double and triple checking that it did slow us down on set the whole way through compared to having 1080p monitoring which would have really helped but now with 4K monitors abound and 8K+ cameras, we're going need 4K output just to see now.

    6. New innovation is key and DSMC3 should go back to revisiting HDRx and have full accurate HDR processing, even if you have to drop down resolution to do it. No ghosting, no motion artifacts, all seamless capture. Even having a light field model of the camera could be possible but that might require a whole different thought process. Spheron had an HDR 1080p camera prototype at Siggraph one year and it was amazing and was beyond what can be done with adjusting ISO in RAW in post, this kind of camera should be possible now, even if it's not 8K. Having this functionality would give some major artistic options and could even be just a start towards what would come with DSMC4.
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  6. #136  
    Senior Member Tom Gleeson's Avatar
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    OMG !!! Red PLEASE do not go past 8K on the new DSMC3. Arri and Sony have wisely chosen the 6K mark and in a world where 4K is the maximum delivery resolution we do not need anything more than 8K. Apart from marketing and bragging rights anything higher than 8K is an actual detriment to getting the cameras on to productions. Most producers and even post houses are very resistant to larger and larger files. If Red can do some codec magic and somehow make 12K camera original files smaller than DSMC2 files that would help but there is no push from productions looking for more resolution. Apart from the Blackmagic 12K camera* which fits into a lower budget category the Red 8K cameras are already the industry's highest resolution cameras.

    I have been involved in testing a 9K camera and it its hard to take advantage of this high resolution. So far very few lenses have been able to do justice to it with the exception of the Arri Signatures and some of the Sigma lenses. Most glass needs to be stopped down to F5.6 to get close to resolving more than the sensor ( and who wants that.)

    I understand that there are scenarios where resolutions past 8K will be useful but the reality of day to day "normal" shooting there is only very limited value. Producers and post houses resistance to Red Workflows due to the computer processing intensity of the footage is lowering but just as computers are catching up to the demands of 8K R3D it would be a bummer to see Red push cameras even further. I have just NEVER EVER had a client ask for more resolution but to this day I still get asked can we just shoot this at 6K or 4K on my sweet 8K Monstro.

    Sensors larger than Full Frame could be interesting but the next logical step would be to build a sensor that would match the 65mm format but to be honest I suspect it would be a low volume camera.

    I bet many Blackmagic 12K cameras will have the camera set to 6K for alot of the day to day work.
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  7. #137  
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    Red has shown that it can do a really good global shutter. The global shutter should be the heart of DSMC3. Integrated frame averaging would also be fun, and better in some ways than HDRx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Gleeson View Post
    Sensors larger than Full Frame could be interesting but the next logical step would be to build a sensor that would match the 65mm format but to be honest I suspect it would be a low volume camera.
    I agree with most of that. I have to object to sensors larger than VV unless:

    1. Resolution is very high

    2. Sensitivity is off the charts (e.g. A7sIII)

    The film paradigm of large surface area does not apply proportionally to digital.
    Good production values may not be noticed. Bad production values will be.
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