Thread: Noisy Shots - Am I doing something wrong?

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  1. #1 Noisy Shots - Am I doing something wrong? 
    So recently I started doing some poking around this website and other Youtubers shooting with Red just to see a comparison and having to wonder if I am doing something wrong. To me and my eyes, it seems I have a lot of "dancing" pixels in my shots. At least more than some out there. Even stumbled across this guy's demo reel... super clean. And for years I have been watching a lot of footage that is just crisp and what some others even call "sterile". I think a good example of this is this guy's demo reel.

    https://vimeo.com/278084767

    Recently I received my DSMC2 Scarlet-W back from repair, and of course the first thing I do is blackshade the camera. Did a shoot on Thursday... Some things well lit with LEDs and others just ambient. And what I cannot get over is the amount of dancing pixels in the darker areas. Did a test shoot playing with the compression shortly after... while lower compression helps a little, it's not as much as I would hope. Still dancing pixels. I've got a support ticket into Red at the moment to see what they have to say, but I think appealing to the community here may yield better results. I am attaching a link to some sample files here. I typically try to shoot at or very close to 800ISO. The test shot of my daughter on the couch is shot with a Canon 50mm at 1.4 at a 10:1 compression. The other I believe used a Sigma 18-35. 10:1 compression as well. Maybe this is normal for the Dragon sensor, as I know the Helium sensor is better than this. But I keep going back to this guy's demo reel thinking "wow those are clean shots". Would like to see some people weigh in on this and maybe give suggestions. BTW - Samples were with the camera up to temperature.


    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h60a3iywv...qYtYgFEMa?dl=0
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Fabricio Morato's Avatar
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    I haven't watched your samples but looking at what you wrote your compression seems a little high for 5k Dragon... I would try to shoot at Max 8:1..prob. around 5:1 and lower.
    Also, dragon is a little more noisy than the other sensors. If it bothers you, try shooting at a lower ISO like 250-320..and light it more (especially at night, try going as low as you can).
    Hope it helps.
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  3. #3  
    Correct blackshading.
    Proper exposure, no goalpost and make sure your histogram is within 2/3 of the right when having iso set to 800.

    Keep compression low if you want it clean at least if you got low exposure.
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
    +46855524900 www.syndicate.se/axis
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  4. #4  
    Is ISO going to matter so much given I am shooting raw and 800 being the native ISO (ie: ISO is just relative against the metadata)? Or am I misunderstanding this? And I use that first showreel example as he was using the same camera. And some of those clips had minimal lighting.

    I did record the same clip of my daughter on the couch at 4:1, and while the noise was slightly less, it still was more than I would have expected. Or is this just the sensor.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Fabricio Morato's Avatar
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    The ISO is just metadata, however when you set ISO in camera you are "simulating" that ISO. Which means, the higher the ISO you set you will be letting less light hit the sensor.the lower the ISO ,you'll be doing the opposite, letting more light hit it, making it less noisy. Hope this makes sense.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Shawn P's Avatar
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    How do you "Correct Blackshhade"
    RED EPIC-W #3508
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  7. #7  
    I have a shoot next weekend or sooner and will try lowering the compression. I understand the whole ISO thing, but if this is metadata and you set the ISO lower, to compensate you will obviously have to let more light in. But then won't you run the risk of blowing out your highlights. And I defer back to the demo reel I used as an example.. I have never been able to remove noise like that. And myself for "correct blackshading" I use the auto mode to run the gamut after the camera is up to temp.
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  8. #8  
    Several things to think about:

    First and foremost: give your heroes a lot of pixels. The tiny fraction that your subject occupies in that large room is no way to evaluate pixel-level details.

    2. Lighting is important. Your subjects face is technically in shadow. The brightness of her arms is fine for caucasian skin tones, but her face is a good two steps below that. If you want her face to shine...expose for the face!

    3. There is a potential confounding factor in how your ISO calibration was set. New ISO 400 = Old ISO 800. Saying that DRAGON was native ISO 800 was always a stretch. It really is more like 400. I haven't pick apart your R3Dfile carefully enough to discern whether your ISO 1280 is new or old calibration, but if new, then you are really shooting 2 stops under at ISO 2500. Which is not DRAGON-friendly.

    4. Compression exagerates all of the cumulative effects above. Which is why lowering compression helps but does not fix your problems.
    Michael Tiemann, Chapel Hill NC

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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Prescott View Post
    So recently I started doing some poking around this website and other Youtubers shooting with Red just to see a comparison and having to wonder if I am doing something wrong. To me and my eyes, it seems I have a lot of "dancing" pixels in my shots. At least more than some out there. Even stumbled across this guy's demo reel... super clean. And for years I have been watching a lot of footage that is just crisp and what some others even call "sterile". I think a good example of this is this guy's demo reel.

    https://vimeo.com/278084767Don’t know why you are getting this much noise, the compression was a little high and iso but... A little s curve, contrast, deb and noise cleans it up. Strange your goal posts good and it seems the light was good too, still more noise than I would have expected, but a little work and you can clean it up.

    Recently I received my DSMC2 Scarlet-W back from repair, and of course the first thing I do is blackshade the camera. Did a shoot on Thursday... Some things well lit with LEDs and others just ambient. And what I cannot get over is the amount of dancing pixels in the darker areas. Did a test shoot playing with the compression shortly after... while lower compression helps a little, it's not as much as I would hope. Still dancing pixels. I've got a support ticket into Red at the moment to see what they have to say, but I think appealing to the community here may yield better results. I am attaching a link to some sample files here. I typically try to shoot at or very close to 800ISO. The test shot of my daughter on the couch is shot with a Canon 50mm at 1.4 at a 10:1 compression. The other I believe used a Sigma 18-35. 10:1 compression as well. Maybe this is normal for the Dragon sensor, as I know the Helium sensor is better than this. But I keep going back to this guy's demo reel thinking "wow those are clean shots". Would like to see some people weigh in on this and maybe give suggestions. BTW - Samples were with the camera up to temperature.


    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h60a3iywv...qYtYgFEMa?dl=0
    Don’t know why you are getting this much noise, the compression was a little high and iso but... A little s curve, contrast, deb and noise cleans it up. Strange your goal posts good and it seems the light was good too, still more noise than I would have expected, but a little work and you can clean it up
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Prescott View Post
    I have a shoot next weekend or sooner and will try lowering the compression. I understand the whole ISO thing, but if this is metadata and you set the ISO lower, to compensate you will obviously have to let more light in. But then won't you run the risk of blowing out your highlights. And I defer back to the demo reel I used as an example.. I have never been able to remove noise like that. And myself for "correct blackshading" I use the auto mode to run the gamut after the camera is up to temp.
    Listen, Dragon sensor "native" ISO is really 320. Yes you can light to 800, but if you even underexpose a little, you'll see a bit of noise. Even Alexa has noise at 800 if the shadows are dark enough.

    Most people don't realize how much light they actually need.

    When shooting Dragon, it's a good discipline to lower your ISO to 640 or 320. It will force you to light a bit more, and open up a bit more.

    Hope this helps.
    Nick Morrison
    Founder, Director & Lead Creative
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