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  1. #81  
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    So these are expensive to make in such small quantities but buyers that are not rental houses are not able to help increase those quantities? Definitely looks like the middle finger to owner ops.
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  2. #82  
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    The rental houses are a very valuable set of customers. Delivering something that they find necessary for their business model is just good customer service on RED's part.

    That said, I'm hopeful that some of the design and ergonomic improvements will make their way back to the models accessible to us. In the end, what I like to shoot on as a filmmaker, leans heavily towards the model I'd rent from a rental house. The flexibility of stripping things down etc., is more the outlier scenario, not the standard. I think of this every single time I end up building a frankenstein rig because so many of the basics these days, aren't part of the core body or available in a comprehensive, balanced module.
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  3. #83  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Med D View Post
    So these are expensive to make in such small quantities but buyers that are not rental houses are not able to help increase those quantities? Definitely looks like the middle finger to owner ops.
    I met with Jarred today and discussed many a thing. Mostly rental houses who are ordering a minimum of 10X Range bodies are where these are targeted. This mostly due to Ranger's price and unique manufacturing requirements.

    However, Jarred mentioned if he could gang up 10 or so individuals for guaranteed orders he'd entertain it and likely do it.


    Personal and practical perspective. Rental houses certainly reacted to the Panavision DXL, especially those moderately or heavily invested in RED cameras. It was this reaction and listening to what they wanted and how to appropriately fit their needs that Jarred and RED went down the path to create, revise, and develop Ranger in this way. Mostly in the case of a typical rental environment a house likely would favor a body that can be quickly deployed and not be so concerned about modules, or in this case pretty much a single module.

    To that point for those rental houses and individual owner operators ask yourself if you need that pre-built/rigged mindset or something more flexible in terms of modularity. Because a DSMC2 body w/ the RED Production Module gets you 90% of the way there when compared to Ranger. Remember, Ranger can never be made smaller or even larger if that's your desire. DSMC2 can do whatever the hell you want it to do rigging-wise.

    I certainly see where people feel perhaps slighted by the DXL and Ranger, but you have literally the same powerful tools in your hands in a slightly more flexible package. Remember PV and others still over DSMC2 brains when they need smaller rigs.

    If you're aiming for a similar day rate to a house for the feature set, grab the new module and be done with it. It actually saves you money if you already own a body if you think about it.

    I'll run and hide after that, but still pretty into my DSMC2 brains for their flexibility. Just with the Production module came out before I purchased OMOD XLR Module and REDVOLT XL Expanders and all that. That's my gripe, but I'm building a time machine and smuggling the new tech and burning the 3rd party modules that didn't work or never came to be to the ground. Snicker.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  4. #84  
    Senior Member Mark Phelan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I met with Jarred today and discussed many a thing. Mostly rental houses who are ordering a minimum of 10X Range bodies are where these are targeted. This mostly due to Ranger's price and unique manufacturing requirements.

    However, Jarred mentioned if he could gang up 10 or so individuals for guaranteed orders he'd entertain it and likely do it.


    Personal and practical perspective. Rental houses certainly reacted to the Panavision DXL, especially those moderately or heavily invested in RED cameras. It was this reaction and listening to what they wanted and how to appropriately fit their needs that Jarred and RED went down the path to create, revise, and develop Ranger in this way. Mostly in the case of a typical rental environment a house likely would favor a body that can be quickly deployed and not be so concerned about modules, or in this case pretty much a single module.

    To that point for those rental houses and individual owner operators ask yourself if you need that pre-built/rigged mindset or something more flexible in terms of modularity. Because a DSMC2 body w/ the RED Production Module gets you 90% of the way there when compared to Ranger. Remember, Ranger can never be made smaller or even larger if that's your desire. DSMC2 can do whatever the hell you want it to do rigging-wise.

    I certainly see where people feel perhaps slighted by the DXL and Ranger, but you have literally the same powerful tools in your hands in a slightly more flexible package. Remember PV and others still over DSMC2 brains when they need smaller rigs.

    If you're aiming for a similar day rate to a house for the feature set, grab the new module and be done with it. It actually saves you money if you already own a body if you think about it.

    I'll run and hide after that, but still pretty into my DSMC2 brains for their flexibility. Just with the Production module came out before I purchased OMOD XLR Module and REDVOLT XL Expanders and all that. That's my gripe, but I'm building a time machine and smuggling the new tech and burning the 3rd party modules that didn't work or never came to be to the ground. Snicker.
    And the normal (whatever that means) DSMC2 scratches the inner LEGO® itch. I've yet to see two builds that are exactly alike. Kinda like DPs.
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  5. #85  
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    Nikhil and Mark -- perhaps inadvertently -- just summed up the Yin and the Yang of RED camera philosophy IMO. The school of building a camera with a bunch of different blocks and the school of buying a single camera that does all the things a camera should do right out of the box. There are certainly positives to both approaches. I believe part of RED's continuing impotence in the features world though is the building-block approach. If you are not a true student of RED, someone who follows every little twist and turn of the technology and product offerings, it is difficult to know (and sometimes obtain) the correct blocks needed for a given project. It's also more challenging to get multiple rigs with the exact same configuration easily. And honestly, at times the blocks seem more formulated to add cost than to add functionality.

    While RED may simply be placating the rental guys with this model, I also think there is a possibility that this is targeted at getting more features wins. Not directly, by simply making RED more available, but indirectly, by making RED more user-friendly and mission-ready. To me this advance looks like Porsche and the rear-engine 911. Many feel that the ancient 911 design is inferior to the more modern designs Porsche offers, but Porsche has touted the rear-engine approach for so long, and so many have consumed the koolaid so religiously, that they cannot simply fix the 911 and put the engine in another place. Instead they have danced around it for twenty years and simply offered other options. Only the final, full advance of electrification will put the rear-engine canard to rest. This Ranger looks an awful lot like a Boxster to me.
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  6. #86 Choices 
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    What are the key differences between a DSMC2 w/Production Module and a Ranger? What would the price delta be?

    FWIW, I'm happy to see RED making the Ranger. Many of us can break down and reconfigure a RED quickly and easily, but should that be, essentially, a requirement?
    I own, and adore, my Monstro. That said, if somebody wants to pay my day rate, I'll shoot ARRI, Panasonic, Sony, etc...

    The other welcome advantage of having a known quantity like a Ranger at rental houses is multicam situations. Typically, pre-production involves quizzing the vendor(s) (rental house or owner/op) about every detail of the particular RED package they happen to have. If the person on the other end of the call doesn't really know much about the RED system...

    Not sure what the economics are of offering Rangers via the regular sales channels, but if I was a dealer I'd sure want the option. The wide world of production should have room for our favorite "build to situation" Lego set - AND - a more conventional camera option.

    Cheers - #19
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  7. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lyons Collister, ASC View Post
    RED had a rollout of Ranger at RSH yesterday. So sad that I missed it. It is my understanding that some rental houses have some already.

    Am looking forward to seeing it. A part of me would love my Monster to look like that but I also love my tiny little package of powerful image creation!
    We have them in at Keslow ;)
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  8. #88  
    Personally I'm not in the rental market and I would most likely not buy a Ranger if I was offered one. Even so, I hope RED cuts the bullshit and start selling these to who ever wants to pay for them.
    Björn Benckert
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  9. #89  
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    Some additional thoughts as I'm digging into my knowledge base of Ranger as I'm staring at it.

    - it's a 24v camera
    - it doesn't feature a back focus adjustment

    Looking deeper into Ranger I'm feeling it is a much more rental house purpose designed. That's not to say RED couldn't toss back focus and a host of other more universal features into it, but in it's current state it's designed for people who can handle some of the thing surrounding it's design. Which is all beginning to make much more sense to me personally.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  10. #90  
    Senior Member Michael Lindsay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Some additional thoughts as I'm digging into my knowledge base of Ranger as I'm staring at it.

    - it's a 24v camera
    - it doesn't feature a back focus adjustment

    Looking deeper into Ranger I'm feeling it is a much more rental house purpose designed. That's not to say RED couldn't toss back focus and a host of other more universal features into it, but in it's current state it's designed for people who can handle some of the thing surrounding it's design. Which is all beginning to make much more sense to me personally.
    Hi Phil

    I personally consider the current backfocus danger (if the side lock is engaged) such a worry I’d rather have a shim only camera....

    Regards

    Michael
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