Thread: IPP2 and LUTs

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  1. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Yuan-Vogel View Post
    Just seems odd to me IPP2 doesn't have a log option in camera. Some people work in log or use luts designed for log, seems strange to have to go to legacy to see log+lut in camera.
    When you say log, what log do you mean? redlogfilm, log-C or which one? you need to convert from redwidegamut to what ever log space your lut is made for and then apply the lut addetivly Lot of transforms going from linear so if you got a rwgrgb2lin lut and combinde it with a lin2log lut and then add what ever lut you wanted to that... then I guess that would give you a lut with you wanted transformation.
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  2. #12  
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    I think we should review the white page on the IPP2 Image Pipeline Stage.
    https://www.red.com/downloads/option...6160&version=3

    Noah, are you trying to not view the Output Transform stage?
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.E View Post
    I think we should review the white page on the IPP2 Image Pipeline Stage.
    https://www.red.com/downloads/option...6160&version=3

    Noah, are you trying to not view the Output Transform stage?
    Yeah basically. Weirdly that whitepaper seems to say that if you just set your tone curve to none and left everything else default you should get log3g10, yet that does not seem to be the case...

    Basically I want to use a LUT designed for LOG3G10, not LOG3G10+tonemap, but that does not appear to be possible in IPP2 in camera...
    Noah Yuan-Vogel | noahyv.com
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  4. #14  
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    That is completely checkable by comparing those two LUTs in resolve.
    Freek Zonderland
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Yuan-Vogel View Post
    Basically I want to use a LUT designed for LOG3G10, not LOG3G10+tonemap, but that does not appear to be possible in IPP2 in camera...
    As far as I can tell that is actually *not* possible under IPP2. Worst still, whether it's in RCXp/Post or in-camera, setting the tone mapping/roll-off to "none" is *not* the same as setting the colour space/gamma to RWG/Log3G10 in legacy mode... Which is annoying and I'm still confused as to why it's not the case.

    The problem, as far as I can tell, is the tone mapping is done for the output display (whether its Rec709/BT1886 or 2020 or P3 or whatever), and I'm not sure you can ignore that in-camera without going to Legacy (fortunately in RCXp/post, you can set the display settings to RWG/Log3G10, so you're in Ipp2 mode, but the tonemapping/roll-off settings won't effect the image).

    As I understand it, this is how Panny decided to treat the DXL because it's fewer variables and hence less chances for inconsistencies, miscommunication, and/or improper implementation in post across all software... (It's also closer to how Arri has treated ALEV3 footage since day one.)

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a workaround, annoying as it is, is to set the camera to Legacy with RWG/Log3G10, but then select RCXp/software's default to open as IPP2 (with the display settings as IPP2 as well, so tone mapping doesn't change the image) and then apply the same 64^3 version of LUT you used in-camera. That will have all the improved debayer benefits of IPP2, and result in the same image you had in-camera in legacy RWG/Log3G10... Does this sound right?

    Sidenote: Not sure if in-camera proxies will be made with ipp2 or legacy debayer though...

    p.s. By the way, this kind of nuanced/confusing BS is another one of the major reasons I think Arri still has shit on lock with their 10 year old sensor/workflow.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 05-05-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    I don't own a Red camera, but I image a "creative lut" with just the color grade info without tone mapping and gamma curve should work.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Here is a folder which includes A .R3D file from Luigi Valtulini with the pre-graded .RMD and the "Luigi on Roof" Creative Lut I made in Resolve. The Lut has no Tone map or Gamma Curve just the Color Grade from resolve.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/612y8bjkc...3bHPftH2a?dl=0



    The grade inside of Resolve was done with only the "Primary Bars" and "Primary Wheels", The Camera raw settings were ISO 400 with a default Kelvin of 5600. Secondary corrections could yield better Skin and a Less Magenta Sky but Secondary corrections won't translate inside of a Lut, only Basic Primary color corrections.


    The Original in Redcine-X





    The Grade In Resolve 16





    The Grade made into a "Creative Lut" Applied back inside of Redcine-X













    "Luigi Less Red Creative Lut"


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zt5lqwjpal...106F.cube?dl=0


    Last edited by rand thompson; 05-05-2019 at 04:37 PM.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    I don't own a Red camera, but I image a "creative lut" with just the color grade info without tone mapping and gamma curve should work.
    Yes "Creative LUTs" obviously work. LOG-input LUTs don't seem to in camera in IPP2...
    Noah Yuan-Vogel | noahyv.com
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Noah,


    Here's Phil's Workflow for IPP2 Luts in-camera if you don't already know this.

    From Phil Holland's http://www.phfx.com/temp/reduser/phf...troduction.jpg website





    You can also read pages 78-85 on the IPP2 workflow and 3d Lut importing from the Monstro Operational Guide or one of the other Red cameras With full IPP2 support guides.

    Here is Monstro's Op. Guide.

    http://docs.red.com/955-0167/DSMC2_M...Guide_v7_1.pdf


    Since I don't own a Red camera, let me try to understand what you are trying to do. Are you needing Creative Luts with IPP2 Output Transforms baked in? Or am I still misunderstanding what you are trying to do?
    Last edited by rand thompson; 05-05-2019 at 10:13 PM.
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    As far as I can tell that is actually *not* possible under IPP2. Worst still, whether it's in RCXp/Post or in-camera, setting the tone mapping/roll-off to "none" is *not* the same as setting the colour space/gamma to RWG/Log3G10 in legacy mode... Which is annoying and I'm still confused as to why it's not the case.

    The problem, as far as I can tell, is the tone mapping is done for the output display (whether its Rec709/BT1886 or 2020 or P3 or whatever), and I'm not sure you can ignore that in-camera without going to Legacy (fortunately in RCXp/post, you can set the display settings to RWG/Log3G10, so you're in Ipp2 mode, but the tonemapping/roll-off settings won't effect the image).

    As I understand it, this is how Panny decided to treat the DXL because it's fewer variables and hence less chances for inconsistencies, miscommunication, and/or improper implementation in post across all software... (It's also closer to how Arri has treated ALEV3 footage since day one.)

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a workaround, annoying as it is, is to set the camera to Legacy with RWG/Log3G10, but then select RCXp/software's default to open as IPP2 (with the display settings as IPP2 as well, so tone mapping doesn't change the image) and then apply the same 64^3 version of LUT you used in-camera. That will have all the improved debayer benefits of IPP2, and result in the same image you had in-camera in legacy RWG/Log3G10... Does this sound right?

    Sidenote: Not sure if in-camera proxies will be made with ipp2 or legacy debayer though...

    p.s. By the way, this kind of nuanced/confusing BS is another one of the major reasons I think Arri still has shit on lock with their 10 year old sensor/workflow.
    From my testing, I believe this is spot on. Although unsure about in-camera proxies.
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