Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: New article: The Cameras Behind Netflix Best Series: Spoiler- RED Dominates

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Joel Arvidsson's Avatar
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    Capturing a solid depth map would be so cool. But I would be scared of the datastorage on such device. For everyday use I still wish we se a solid autofocus and push to focus. It would come handy so many times. I wish I would not have to push 1:1 all the time to pull focus.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Zack Birlew's Avatar
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    It was interesting to read what cameras were used on what, the Sony F65 always seemed like a classy choice and I was surprised at what shows were using the Sony F55 as I know it's quite capable but I didn't know that camera could look that good! It's nice to see the Epic Dragon still going strong too and certain shows using the Xenomorph RED cameras, very fun, and I can only imagine how good next generation cameras will look!
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  3. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    People spend way too much time worrying about these charts. We will lose on almost every chart because RED is not for the normal. It is not supposed to be. If RED becomes the normal, it means we are not doing good enough... and it also means that the other companies are not doing good enough.

    People need to remember RED is not supposed to be the king of every mountain.. we were built to be the edge. We push the imaging ball forward, sometimes too far, and as much as the industry sometimes hates it because it is change, it really is in everyone best interest. Image capture has been democratized. Professional capture NEED to continuously get better, just like consumer tools just keep closing the gap. We did this with resolution. We made it "normal" And we did it with dynamic range in a small pixel size. Now we are pushing to solve the next imaging hurdle that is on our list.

    Cinematographers that don't care about pushing the image to the edge... that don't give a shit about technology.. usually avoid us like the plague. Because even though we are making it easier and easier to work at the highest resolution at the absolute highest image quality, It is still easier just to point and shoot and capture something that is just good enough, and for a lot of people, that is obviously, good enough. And that's not wrong, There are a lot of people that would prefer to drive a Volvo over a Lamborghini, because it is just easier, and safer. And that is ok. It is people that expect more that usually look over the fence to the RED side. That is why we are here.

    I do know saying people only shoot RED because of they are forced to is a bit unfair, You can see on the chart there are a dozen other cameras approved by Netflix that every cinematographer on the list had access to. Even if they normally shot their ARRI and couldn't because the image wasn't good enough for Netflix, They had A LOT of other options, if they wanted to. And to be fair we lost a few shows here because some of the cameras on this list that are not RED were chosen by ARRI cinematographers that just hate RED so much that they just couldn't bear to use one :)

    At the end of the day the customer has the only vote that matters. Netflix 4k mandate had nothing to do with us... We didn't sit on their doorstep demanding it. When that mandate happened, we learned the same day everyone else did. They realized all by themselves that the customer would want it, they knew they could charge more for it, and they implemented it. If it didn't work, if the customers didn't care, they wouldn't of done it and they wouldn't continue to do it. Yes when that mandate happened, almost every other camera company jumped on top of their boxes shouting that resolution doesn't matter. Now today, every single cinema camera company makes cameras above 4k. Because the customers want it. Walk into Best Buy... it is getting hard to buy a 1080p tv today. Of the almost 270 models of televisions Best Buy sells, 240 of those televisions are 4k or above. It's almost 10:1. That ratio was almost the exact opposite the day the Netflix mandate went into place.

    Next year this chart and that ratio will change as Arri and Sony both have new cameras that just have been added to the list. We have the Ranger and the Dragon-X just show up to the party as well. At the end of the day, choice is good. We don't care about winning awards , we just care about pushing the best image forward, no matter how hard and no matter how far.
    nicly said.

    It's a bit like apple vs. pc/android...
    What i hate is when people are so into their arri universe that they don't have a clue about anything other.
    They say we don't need raw, just shoot prores... (prores 4k 422hq isn't much smaller than compressed red raw) and you loose the flexibility of raw
    They say we don't want to shoot 5k raw because it will slow down our workflow... come on, i will record some prores proxys for you guys but will edit my 5k redraw on my laptop next to you when you still try to connect your proxys to the source files, bit**es
    1AC's say we can't rig the RED as easy and comfy as our alexa mini for hendheld setup... because you never really searched for the right stuff for red. - throw in a kippertie olpf and you loose some weight on mattebox filters, get a revolva and you also have easy nd switching. get a pogo adapter and you can mount the monitor where you want. maybe it's the fault of most rental houses don't have that stuff.

    yeah but like you said, that's most of the people who just like to shoot and don't worry about any new tech which is ok but i don't like when they say it's bad because say don't have a clue.
    Just need to say that

    Best
    Marcus
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  4. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Gelhard View Post
    nicly said.

    It's a bit like apple vs. pc/android...
    What i hate is when people are so into their arri universe that they don't have a clue about anything other.
    They say we don't need raw, just shoot prores... (prores 4k 422hq isn't much smaller than compressed red raw) and you loose the flexibility of raw
    They say we don't want to shoot 5k raw because it will slow down our workflow... come on, i will record some prores proxys for you guys but will edit my 5k redraw on my laptop next to you when you still try to connect your proxys to the source files, bit**es
    1AC's say we can't rig the RED as easy and comfy as our alexa mini for hendheld setup... because you never really searched for the right stuff for red. - throw in a kippertie olpf and you loose some weight on mattebox filters, get a revolva and you also have easy nd switching. get a pogo adapter and you can mount the monitor where you want. maybe it's the fault of most rental houses don't have that stuff.

    yeah but like you said, that's most of the people who just like to shoot and don't worry about any new tech which is ok but i don't like when they say it's bad because say don't have a clue.
    Just need to say that

    Best
    Marcus
    It's not that people are so into their Arri universe. They've used both and know which one they prefer. It's not the fault of rental houses that a Red is more difficult to rig. Red have always made some very odd design decisions and I don't know any camera crew that thinks 'thank god they god rid of cable connections, I'd much rather a pogo pin adapter'.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Mark Phelan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    People spend way too much time worrying about these charts. We will lose on almost every chart because RED is not for the normal. It is not supposed to be. If RED becomes the normal, it means we are not doing good enough... and it also means that the other companies are not doing good enough.

    People need to remember RED is not supposed to be the king of every mountain.. we were built to be the edge. We push the imaging ball forward, sometimes too far, and as much as the industry sometimes hates it because it is change, it really is in everyone best interest. Image capture has been democratized. Professional capture NEED to continuously get better, just like consumer tools just keep closing the gap. We did this with resolution. We made it "normal" And we did it with dynamic range in a small pixel size. Now we are pushing to solve the next imaging hurdle that is on our list.

    Cinematographers that don't care about pushing the image to the edge... that don't give a shit about technology.. usually avoid us like the plague. Because even though we are making it easier and easier to work at the highest resolution at the absolute highest image quality, It is still easier just to point and shoot and capture something that is just good enough, and for a lot of people, that is obviously, good enough. And that's not wrong, There are a lot of people that would prefer to drive a Volvo over a Lamborghini, because it is just easier, and safer. And that is ok. It is people that expect more that usually look over the fence to the RED side. That is why we are here.

    I do know saying people only shoot RED because of they are forced to is a bit unfair, You can see on the chart there are a dozen other cameras approved by Netflix that every cinematographer on the list had access to. Even if they normally shot their ARRI and couldn't because the image wasn't good enough for Netflix, They had A LOT of other options, if they wanted to. And to be fair we lost a few shows here because some of the cameras on this list that are not RED were chosen by ARRI cinematographers that just hate RED so much that they just couldn't bear to use one :)

    At the end of the day the customer has the only vote that matters. Netflix 4k mandate had nothing to do with us... We didn't sit on their doorstep demanding it. When that mandate happened, we learned the same day everyone else did. They realized all by themselves that the customer would want it, they knew they could charge more for it, and they implemented it. If it didn't work, if the customers didn't care, they wouldn't of done it and they wouldn't continue to do it. Yes when that mandate happened, almost every other camera company jumped on top of their boxes shouting that resolution doesn't matter. Now today, every single cinema camera company makes cameras above 4k. Because the customers want it. Walk into Best Buy... it is getting hard to buy a 1080p tv today. Of the almost 270 models of televisions Best Buy sells, 240 of those televisions are 4k or above. It's almost 10:1. That ratio was almost the exact opposite the day the Netflix mandate went into place.

    Next year this chart and that ratio will change as Arri and Sony both have new cameras that just have been added to the list. We have the Ranger and the Dragon-X just show up to the party as well. At the end of the day, choice is good. We don't care about winning awards , we just care about pushing the best image forward, no matter how hard and no matter how far.
    Huzzah! Exactly what I want from a company. RED is one of the few companies that listens to ME. For the life of me, I don't know why, but it certainly is appreciated.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Anthony Berenato Jr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    People spend way too much time worrying about these charts. We will lose on almost every chart because RED is not for the normal. It is not supposed to be. If RED becomes the normal, it means we are not doing good enough... and it also means that the other companies are not doing good enough.

    People need to remember RED is not supposed to be the king of every mountain.. we were built to be the edge. We push the imaging ball forward, sometimes too far, and as much as the industry sometimes hates it because it is change, it really is in everyone best interest. Image capture has been democratized. Professional capture NEED to continuously get better, just like consumer tools just keep closing the gap. We did this with resolution. We made it "normal" And we did it with dynamic range in a small pixel size. Now we are pushing to solve the next imaging hurdle that is on our list.

    Cinematographers that don't care about pushing the image to the edge... that don't give a shit about technology.. usually avoid us like the plague. Because even though we are making it easier and easier to work at the highest resolution at the absolute highest image quality, It is still easier just to point and shoot and capture something that is just good enough, and for a lot of people, that is obviously, good enough. And that's not wrong, There are a lot of people that would prefer to drive a Volvo over a Lamborghini, because it is just easier, and safer. And that is ok. It is people that expect more that usually look over the fence to the RED side. That is why we are here.

    I do know saying people only shoot RED because of they are forced to is a bit unfair, You can see on the chart there are a dozen other cameras approved by Netflix that every cinematographer on the list had access to. Even if they normally shot their ARRI and couldn't because the image wasn't good enough for Netflix, They had A LOT of other options, if they wanted to. And to be fair we lost a few shows here because some of the cameras on this list that are not RED were chosen by ARRI cinematographers that just hate RED so much that they just couldn't bear to use one :)

    At the end of the day the customer has the only vote that matters. Netflix 4k mandate had nothing to do with us... We didn't sit on their doorstep demanding it. When that mandate happened, we learned the same day everyone else did. They realized all by themselves that the customer would want it, they knew they could charge more for it, and they implemented it. If it didn't work, if the customers didn't care, they wouldn't of done it and they wouldn't continue to do it. Yes when that mandate happened, almost every other camera company jumped on top of their boxes shouting that resolution doesn't matter. Now today, every single cinema camera company makes cameras above 4k. Because the customers want it. Walk into Best Buy... it is getting hard to buy a 1080p tv today. Of the almost 270 models of televisions Best Buy sells, 240 of those televisions are 4k or above. It's almost 10:1. That ratio was almost the exact opposite the day the Netflix mandate went into place.

    Next year this chart and that ratio will change as Arri and Sony both have new cameras that just have been added to the list. We have the Ranger and the Dragon-X just show up to the party as well. At the end of the day, choice is good. We don't care about winning awards , we just care about pushing the best image forward, no matter how hard and no matter how far.
    It's still crazy to me that when RED brought 4K to the table, everyone said... "We don't need that to finish in HD." Then 8K came and people made fun of RED and said, "How many Ks do we really need?" Then we look at NAB and CineGear this year to see how serious everyone is taking 8K into 2020. We need rebels of the industry to keep pushing modern technology, otherwise everyone will get too comfortable and sit on their asses. Sometimes you've got to get rid of the headphone jack. Sometimes you've got to shape where things are going into the future of technology.

    It's exciting to watch this wave of innovation in video. Makes me wonder what's next. Makes me wonder what we'll all be able to create with it that will last well into the next generation.
    Anthony Berenato Jr.
    Director / Cinematography Enthusiast
    Web: http://www.anthonyandcamera.com
    Reel: http://vimeo.com/89725163

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  7. #17  
    Thank you Jarred for your detailed comment. Truly appreciated.

    Yossy
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