Thread: The New Mac Pro is Here!!!

Reply to Thread
Page 13 of 23 FirstFirst ... 391011121314151617 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 228
  1. #121  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
    Posts
    9,756
    Exciting times for Apple for sure. FCPX is so efficient already. RED tapping into the new ecosystem is dope.
    ___________________________

    VFX, Cinematographer, Photographer
    10 frame handles
    Vimeo
    Instagram
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewhake View Post
    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2019/608/ - Metal for Pro Apps

    A great presentation showing how apps can utilize Metal and the new hardware. Can't wait to see what Red is able to do with it for R3D decode!
    Thanks Andrew! Very interesting stuff.

    Seems like the smart move (unless you're a developer) is to wait a year for everyone to code all the stuff that takes advantage of this, then buy a refurb or used Mac Pro!

    As you know I'm an NVIDIA fan but I didn't rush out to buy an RTX because I knew it would take a while for them to get all of the renderers actually optimized for it.

    I actually still have 8x 1080ti / Titan Xp cards - now looking into RTX because all of the renderers are FINALLY starting to use it but might just skip a generation and wait for next year.

    OK that's my plan: wait till 2020, for Apple, NVIDIA, Intel etc to all play their hands and for the software developers to have a chance to optimize stuff for them.

    Play with the systems a bit on real-world projects. Then I will choose between:

    - refurb / used 1st gen Mac Pro
    - wait a little longer for 2nd gen (better GPUs, maybe Intel will react to AMD pressure with better CPU pricing, PCIe 4.0)
    - NVIDIA 3000-series (Ampere on 7nm Samsung) coupled with AMD Threadripper v2 or Epyc v2 (64-128 cores) & PCIe 4.0

    Bearing in mind if I went Mac Pro I'd need to buy two because if one goes down I can't fall back to my old 8-core, 6-core and 40-core Windows PCs to render something (my old MacBook Pros and iMacs from 2011 might not cut it methinks!).

    Bruce Allen
    www.bruceallen.tv
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Halper View Post
    It's not what they did with the past cheese grater Mac Pros. In the past the entry Xeons were quad core starting at $2499-2999. Now the entry Xeon is 8 cores, but they're starting at $5999. Why the big jump in price?
    But it is what they did in the past. They were locked in sync with HP Xeon workstation pricing. Yes, thereís a big price jump. Same as weíve seen across the industry. Your price breakdown is a bit off. The 8-core Xeon W-3225 that they will be using just went into production and has a volume price of $1200. Street price on that CPU is $1335 for pre-orders, so nearly double your $750 number. This motherboard is pretty insane, it would easily MSRP for $1600 if offered on the open market and probably have a street price of $1200. Apple also spends a lot of money on things that the rest of the PC industry typically avoids. I would be shocked if their case has an actual production cost less than $550~$800. Along with the typical markups for memory and storage, etc.. You canít match this same config from HP or Dell for any less, or at least not by a meaningful amount.

    As for your comparison to an X299 build. Youíre right. This system doesnít make sense for your usage. IMO the 8-core version of this new Mac Pro makes little sense in any way. Only really makes sense if you can do with 8-cores, but need a lot more RAM than the lesser X299 or similar platforms provide and a need to couple it with quad GPUs and thunderbolt ports running Mac OS.

    I donít necessarily agree that we donít need Xeon in our industry. Sure, we can get by without it. Most here are just fine with a desktop configuration like you specified above. Hence why I think Apple is ignoring a huge segment of potential market. There are a LOT of people out there who need more than the iMac or Mac Mini, but donít need the Mac Pro.

    FWIW, the Mac Pro configuration Iím intending for myself is a 16-core with 384GB RAM, 2TB SSD and dual GPUs. Iím unsure if Iíll do the duo Vega GPU or will go with two separate ones. Depends on how all the price/performance numbers work out. I plan to buy RAM aftermarket and will add 24TB or more of secondary storage. Iím intrigued by the MPX module storage from Promise, but price will definitely be a deciding factor there. Will consider more cores if the budget allows. Iím also interested to see how theyíve assembled their CPU mount and heatsink system. If CPU pricing is completely wack and itís reasonable to swap, Iíll order the base 8-core and throw in a 24 or 28 core on my own. However, I expect Apple to keep with their past methodology on pricing, which is what HP and others usually do. Price the upgrades to where theyíre too expensive, but not expensive enough to justify buying the base CPU only to throw it away or sell it to buy the one you want. The 28-core Xeon W-3275 just went into production and has a volume price of $4400/each in 1000 unit blocks. I have not seen what theyíre pre-ordering for on the open market, but Iím going to expect around $4600. So weíre talking a $3200 price differential between the two. Iím expecting the cost to go from the 8-core on the new MP to the 28 core to be in the neighborhood of $3800 to $4200. If you do it on your own and sell the old CPU, at best youíll break even or maybe make $100 or so. But youíll have to invest the time and hassle of doing it. It mucks up the warranty if you sell the original CPU because if the system fails and needs to be replaced, they wonít take it in without a CPU installed and they wonít replace your aftermarket CPU, only the one included and warrantied with the system...
    - Jeff Kilgroe
    - Applied Visual Technologies, LLC | RojoMojo
    - Just me and my 8K Monstro VV kicking ass.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #124  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    821
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe View Post
    But it is what they did in the past. They were locked in sync with HP Xeon workstation pricing. Yes, there’s a big price jump. Same as we’ve seen across the industry. Your price breakdown is a bit off. The 8-core Xeon W-3225 that they will be using just went into production and has a volume price of $1200. Street price on that CPU is $1335 for pre-orders, so nearly double your $750 number. This motherboard is pretty insane, it would easily MSRP for $1600 if offered on the open market and probably have a street price of $1200. Apple also spends a lot of money on things that the rest of the PC industry typically avoids. I would be shocked if their case has an actual production cost less than $550~$800. Along with the typical markups for memory and storage, etc.. You can’t match this same config from HP or Dell for any less, or at least not by a meaningful amount.

    As for your comparison to an X299 build. You’re right. This system doesn’t make sense for your usage. IMO the 8-core version of this new Mac Pro makes little sense in any way. Only really makes sense if you can do with 8-cores, but need a lot more RAM than the lesser X299 or similar platforms provide and a need to couple it with quad GPUs and thunderbolt ports running Mac OS.

    I don’t necessarily agree that we don’t need Xeon in our industry. Sure, we can get by without it. Most here are just fine with a desktop configuration like you specified above. Hence why I think Apple is ignoring a huge segment of potential market. There are a LOT of people out there who need more than the iMac or Mac Mini, but don’t need the Mac Pro.

    FWIW, the Mac Pro configuration I’m intending for myself is a 16-core with 384GB RAM, 2TB SSD and dual GPUs. I’m unsure if I’ll do the duo Vega GPU or will go with two separate ones. Depends on how all the price/performance numbers work out. I plan to buy RAM aftermarket and will add 24TB or more of secondary storage. I’m intrigued by the MPX module storage from Promise, but price will definitely be a deciding factor there. Will consider more cores if the budget allows. I’m also interested to see how they’ve assembled their CPU mount and heatsink system. If CPU pricing is completely wack and it’s reasonable to swap, I’ll order the base 8-core and throw in a 24 or 28 core on my own. However, I expect Apple to keep with their past methodology on pricing, which is what HP and others usually do. Price the upgrades to where they’re too expensive, but not expensive enough to justify buying the base CPU only to throw it away or sell it to buy the one you want. The 28-core Xeon W-3275 just went into production and has a volume price of $4400/each in 1000 unit blocks. I have not seen what they’re pre-ordering for on the open market, but I’m going to expect around $4600. So we’re talking a $3200 price differential between the two. I’m expecting the cost to go from the 8-core on the new MP to the 28 core to be in the neighborhood of $3800 to $4200. If you do it on your own and sell the old CPU, at best you’ll break even or maybe make $100 or so. But you’ll have to invest the time and hassle of doing it. It mucks up the warranty if you sell the original CPU because if the system fails and needs to be replaced, they won’t take it in without a CPU installed and they won’t replace your aftermarket CPU, only the one included and warrantied with the system...

    If Apple is serious about their advertised 1.5 TB ram limit then they'll have to use the W-3275M for 28 core so add $3K to your estimate.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #125  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hollywood, USA
    Posts
    6,280
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    Well, Iíll have a better idea what I can get for 10k once preorders begin.
    The top of the line 12-core Trashcan Mac (which I still use every day) was $12K 6 years ago; I'm thinking a reasonable power/cost balance for the 2019 Mac Pro could be had for somewhere around $15K. At least it's upgradable over time, so that counts for something.
    marc wielage, csi ē colorist/post consultant ē daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #126  
    Senior Member Kwan Khan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Allen View Post

    OK that's my plan: wait till 2020, for Apple, NVIDIA, Intel etc to all play their hands and for the software developers to have a chance to optimize stuff for them.

    www.bruceallen.tv
    Agreed, decided a long time ago. In the meantime, will be watching the play from the bench.
    No, I do not RENT MY GEARS... - NYC (Times Square)

    EPIC-D with 9" touch, 4 RAVENs, RPP, Sigma 18-35 PL, Motion Mount, VF/RED-rock wireless FF, Pana 17", JVC 20", Seadicam with SEGWAY, Letus 4-Axis with L'Aigle Exoskeleton.

    Trash-Can 12-core Max'd-out) +MBP (Retina), RED Rocket (Sonnet), RAID system (Promise Pegasus II), Adobe Production (CC), FCS2, Resolve 12 with MC Color, 50" 4K Panel
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #127  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,639
    NVidia is in the counter attack.

    RTX Quadro 8000, MSRP at launch $10k (paper launch).
    Today for only $5,600, that is a 44% discount in less than half a year.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #128  
    Senior Member Eric Santiago's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Zabczynski View Post
    I seriously donít get the bitching about the price. The Mac Pro was never for the average user. If itís too expensive for you, odds are you really donít need one.
    I agree. I can't afford the one I want but I do agree that you pay for staying in the Apple eco.

    I did with RED knowing full well I could have purchased two BMD Cinema Cameras, which I actually did and canceled when the BT Scarlets came out.

    Hoping something gives in a few years where they fill in that gap between the iMac Pro and this new beast :)
    < Someday I'll be cool enough to have something witty here >
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #129  
    Senior Member James Falco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    339
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Halper View Post
    This is a lot like what I've said in the past. We don't need Xeon. Desktop class CPUs and RAM is good and they'll sell a lot more of them.



    It's not what they did with the past cheese grater Mac Pros. In the past the entry Xeons were quad core starting at $2499-2999. .

    You forgetting the fact that back in the days (2006) most tasks like image retouching, print publishing, vector graphics, audio and video ending cold not be done on anything else but a mac pro.

    This days computers are way faster and the actual pro market is microscopic.

    Today most Mac Book pro laptops and iMac's are fast enough to do basic HD video editing, audio work, run photoshop, and lay out entire magazines.

    So todays Mac Pro market consists only of people like us that are constantly on the bleeding edge.
    That do 3D animation, edit and process 4k and 8k raw footage, shoot with medium format cameras sensors at 150mp, do VFX, graphics and compositing, as well as complex sound scores for movies and commercials. On a world scale we are not even 1% of the computer market.

    In the PC world its gaming that keeps the hi end rigs affordable, as there is way more gamers than pro users like us.
    Gaming is what keeps GPU pricing down drives innovation and covers R&D cost.

    I personally am grateful that Apple din't give up on us.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #130  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,639
    Quote Originally Posted by James Falco View Post
    In the PC world its gaming that keeps the hi end rigs affordable, as there is way more gamers than pro users like us.
    Gaming is what keeps GPU pricing down drives innovation and covers R&D cost.
    A realtime 8k.R3D editing/grading workstation doesn't have to cost more than one 1TB RED Mini-Mag in 2019 (even without GPU decoding), thank you gamers...
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts