Thread: 8k r3d 5:1- 6 STOP UNDER AND OVER EXPOSE TEST

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  1. #1 8k r3d 5:1- 6 STOP UNDER AND OVER EXPOSE TEST 
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    8k r3d 5:1- 6 STOP UNDER AND OVER EXPOSE TEST



    By göker gören



    He Shows what s what on the chart, which will be kinda small in the video here. However, the test starts with smaller side-by-side screens then goes to a single full Screen at about the 1:23 minute mark. So I added the YouTube link so it can be seen full-screen on there. This test is done with a Monstro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrczSC4srXI


    Last edited by rand thompson; 06-23-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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  2. #2  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    The iris over/under test is good at revealing what happens at the point of clipping and what happens deep in the noise floor.

    I just hope that people understand that with any digital system once you've hard clipped/over exposed into the heavens and hard crushed/under exposed into the noise floor there's nothing left to salvage.

    Honestly, worked the same way for film. There is a point where nothing exists.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
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    Red Dragon
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Phil,


    Yeah I tried to recover .R3d files that were +5 and +6 respectively, however the color kinda goes to shit after +4 stops over. So, as you stated, its just not worth it after +4 stops over and maybe -2 or -3 stops under.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    You have a lot of workable latitude within a well exposed image. That's pretty much how this all works. There's some tricks to deploy when really strange things happen, but with any of these cameras it's really about exposing correctly.

    Nobody is perfect, but if people are 6 stops over or under, they are getting fired. This is still a useful test for sure to see what is happening, but it emphasizes really why it's critical to expose well with whatever you're working with.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Phil,


    I don't own the camera, but what in-camera tool do you feel gives the most accurate reading of proper exposure?
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Aaron Lochert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    I don't own the camera, but what in-camera tool do you feel gives the most accurate reading of proper exposure?
    Gio Scope is incredibly useful to "zone system" your entire scene. But at a quick glance, the stop lights and the goal posts will save you from a lot of issues.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    I don't own the camera, but what in-camera tool do you feel gives the most accurate reading of proper exposure?
    You've got "many" and I call them out in the DSMC Field Ops Guide.

    As Aaron mentioned, GIOSCOPE sees what the sensor sees and it's incredibly useful for discerning what is noise and what is clipping and what's rolling off to clipping.

    You also have the STOP LIGHTS, which will inform you as to what is clipping immediately.

    And also the GOAL POSTS which fill up as more of the image is clipping.


    Honestly, this is one of the areas where RED excels when it comes to modern digital cinema. The tools are right there available at a button press to ensure you aren't doing anything nuts.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________
    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Lochert View Post
    Gio Scope is incredibly useful to "zone system" your entire scene. But at a quick glance, the stop lights and the goal posts will save you from a lot of issues.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    You've got "many" and I call them out in the DSMC Field Ops Guide.

    As Aaron mentioned, GIOSCOPE sees what the sensor sees and it's incredibly useful for discerning what is noise and what is clipping and what's rolling off to clipping.

    You also have the STOP LIGHTS, which will inform you as to what is clipping immediately.

    And also the GOAL POSTS which fill up as more of the image is clipping.


    Honestly, this is one of the areas where RED excels when it comes to modern digital cinema. The tools are right there available at a button press to ensure you aren't doing anything nuts.

    Thanks a lot both Aaron and Phil!!
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  9. #9  
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    If there is one single message I could send to other camera manufacturers, it would be something like:
    "OK cut the crap. Just show me the GIO Scope"
    S-W #6350 "Moonshot"
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    These aren't the most important tests one can perform on a sensor, although they are indeed important. The main thing for me is how the sensor handles small, intense sources of light. Most sensors fail. The MX sensor didn't do very well but it was hardly the only or worst offender.

    I have not seen all the evidence I want yet, but neither the Alexa nor the DSMC1/2 can handle tail lights properly. During the day when there is plenty of ambient light, they both do quite well. Not so at night. Notice, too, that some digital cameras also show flickering in automotive LEDs. Unacceptable for feature films.

    Are there filters that can minimize the problems caused by point sources? For example, a Tiffen Ultracon. I sort of know what it is but I have never used one.
    Good production values may not be noticed. Bad production values will be.
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