Thread: Was Jinnimag Thread Removed?

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  1. #31  
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    Phil, I’d maybe clarify what the context is and what he mentioned (as best as you can) that caused the thread to be deleted. Because right now, he’s just going to spin this situation as if RED was caught and tried to remove the evidence.
     

  2. #32  
    Senior Member Josh Becker's Avatar
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    Also, why delete the whole thread? Individual posts can be deleted, right? No need to throw out baby with the bathwater.
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  3. #33  
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    I call bullshit on this. Phil do you read any of the posts on Reduser? People attack each other constantly and some of it gets pretty ugly. This is total damage control on REDís part. If anything, it makes his claims about RED and you seem more real. If you havenít got anything to hide, put the thread back. Seems so hypocritical to only delete a thread when it effects you personally.

    Letís call it what it is:

    RED massively overcharged itís users for REDMAGS (which they have the right to by the way) but all the hyperbole about why thereís no 3rd party media is total bull. I bet you RED dropped the case because they knew the charge of how REDMAGS have proprietary tech wouldnít stand up in international court. Which brings me to what most people hate about RED: the bullshit macho PR. REDMAG gate is a total money grab and it just makes people distrust RED even more.

    RED makes good cameras (I own a Dragon and a Helium Weapon and love them) but itís getting harder to rent them on jobs because RED has lost the PR war. If only RED focused all its energy into giving filmmakers what they really want: better (real) dynamic range, especially in the highlights and better color (especially skin tones) and hell Iíd buy more of your overpriced media.
     

  4. #34  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton Esteban View Post
    I call bullshit on this. Phil do you read any of the posts on Reduser? People attack each other constantly and some of it gets pretty ugly. This is total damage control on RED’s part. If anything, it makes his claims about RED and you seem more real. If you haven’t got anything to hide, put the thread back. Seems so hypocritical to only delete a thread when it effects you personally.

    Let’s call it what it is:

    RED massively overcharged it’s users for REDMAGS (which they have the right to by the way) but all the hyperbole about why there’s no 3rd party media is total bull. I bet you RED dropped the case because they knew the charge of how REDMAGS have proprietary tech wouldn’t stand up in international court. Which brings me to what most people hate about RED: the bullshit macho PR. REDMAG gate is a total money grab and it just makes people distrust RED even more.

    RED makes good cameras (I own a Dragon and a Helium Weapon and love them) but it’s getting harder to rent them on jobs because RED has lost the PR war. If only RED focused all its energy into giving filmmakers what they really want: better (real) dynamic range, especially in the highlights and better color (especially skin tones) and hell I’d buy more of your overpriced media.
    I'm a fan of open discussion but of also keeping things civil and avoiding personal attacks, As I have explained many times in the past, that's why I did the Reduser events with Jarred back in the early days of RED. I thought it was beneficial to get people into a room together so they could interact as human beings and not as avatars with no accountability.

    I get the frustration about the removal of the thread. As I said earlier, I don't think it's a good look for RED and would only be justified if there was a legal reason for taking it down. I do think there is justification in removing a post if it is deemed to be intentionally damaging to the brand based on false allegations. As long as it is clearly stated that a post was removed for that purpose. That's how you go about transparency. Taking the whole thread down might fuel the fire and also remove some useful information, some of which may help defend RED's position.

    But I'm also trying to be fair to Phil here. There are serious claims being made about his connection with RED and if those claims are false, I can see how he would be feeling targeted here and how it might impact him professionally. So, we all need to be careful how we go about tossing around allegations. I think it's okay to ask questions, even that one if you want to. Just understand that in doing so, it is questioning his integrity and his response will probably reflect that. Again, open discussion with respect and professionalism will get us to a better resolution.
    Steve Sherrick
     

  5. #35  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    Now, to address the concern that this thread or others like it will be used against us, as it was against Phil in that video and perhaps he feels was done in that last thread, I am not a lawyer but just looking at some resources online about defamation and libel.
    https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo...ving-harm.html
    Again, obviously consult lawyers if you feel you run into this issue and it is affecting you professionally.

    I think the guy behind Jinnimag has made some mistakes in judgment. I highly recommend to him to take a different approach in the future and just present this in a straightforward, scientific manner. We have a lot of smart people here. Doing away with any kind of personal attacks against specific people or even RED as a company and simply stating your case, as accurately as possible will be far more effective. And, since he was also selling a product that was not officially supported by RED, it adds a different level of agenda there too. So, the approach is important.
    Steve Sherrick
     

  6. #36  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Anton, I was the one who took down the thread and I even reached out to a few people to ensure this was the best course of action. This forum will not be supporting any efforts to hurt, defame, attack, harass or abuse anybody on this site.

    You can be critical as hell regarding the subject, I truly encourage the discussion. Criticism is well received. Personal attacks are literally a permaban, it always has been. It didn't just effect me personally, there are other's named within the video. All individuals who shouldn't be dragged into whatever this is.

    Case in point, imagine any one of you posting here and answering various questions (attempting rather diligently in your free time to be helpful) and having your name dragged through the viral mindfield of what this has turned into. It already has happened. Even a couple of critical folks stepped away after that last video release because they released the turn from revealing what's in a mag to the other thing clearly going on.

    No offense, but don't come after me on this. My patience has completely died over it at this point as I have repeated things and faced some fascinating scrutiny. From the PMs, to the Facebook Messages, Emails, etc. This is truly what the person behind this effort is actually after and I understand people don't see that. You only see the flip side of the media pricing stuff, which I'm saying is TOTALLY FINE TO DISCUSS. Supporting the efforts to hurt individuals and even the brand is just not something we should be condoning in any way, shape, or form.

    Again, crack open a thread in Off Topic or Complaints and fire away a harsh opinion on whatever concerns you have related to profiteering, as long as you're not being an ass and playing by the rules, nobody snubs you. This has extended beyond that point as posts here are ending up as fuel to further a skewed opinion.

    And yes Anton, I read the posts on REDUSER. Nearly every single bloody one of them, especially when crap gets out of hand. Generally speaking, things move smoothly even in times of conflicting opinion. This is not one of those times and it's out of hand.

    I've done my best to explain all of this, but at this point I'm modding away in quiet with no explanation. I'm literally in a cafe on vacation and the only mod willing to touch this with a 25 foot pole because for whatever reason I care and see what's actually going on. Meanwhile it's a whole lot of not reading, misinterpretation, and misinformation, which all of you are falling prey to.

    Again, voice your opinions over the core subject of this; the media costs, the marketing, the technologies involved, and desire for 3rd party media. The policy against personal attacks is literally unmovable whether you are identifying with them or not.
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  7. #37  
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    i never understood why these threads are available and accessible to the public, you have to agree to rules when you join the forum, and the public doesnt have to agree to anything and they can just screen grab whatever they want from here and talk about in the real forums now, facebook and youtube. this is why i stopped having discussions here, at least on fb if i say something i regret i can delete it. reduser is like archived forever.
    id like to request every post i ever made on reduser be deleted. thank you.
     

  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordan levy View Post
    i never understood why these threads are available and accessible to the public, you have to agree to rules when you join the forum, and the public doesnt have to agree to anything and they can just screen grab whatever they want from here and talk about in the real forums now, facebook and youtube. this is why i stopped having discussions here, at least on fb if i say something i regret i can delete it. reduser is like archived forever.
    id like to request every post i ever made on reduser be deleted. thank you.
    Not to be a dink but this is the case with nearly every other forum in existence, aside from those hidden behind members-only areas or those with exclusive invite-only access.
     

  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Miner View Post
    Not to be a dink but this is the case with nearly every other forum in existence, aside from those hidden behind members-only areas or those with exclusive invite-only access.
    well maybe that can change? i guess i never read the fine print, and russia has my face.
     

  10. #40  
    Senior Member Donald MJ Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordan levy View Post
    i never understood why these threads are available and accessible to the public, you have to agree to rules when you join the forum, and the public doesnt have to agree to anything and they can just screen grab whatever they want from here and talk about in the real forums now, facebook and youtube. this is why i stopped having discussions here, at least on fb if i say something i regret i can delete it. reduser is like archived forever.
    id like to request every post i ever made on reduser be deleted. thank you.
    RED use this forum for a couple reasons. A big one is marketing. I`m sure its an overall net benefit. This week is setting them back for sure. But as said in the deleted thread, having close communication with your customers needs to be accurate when you tell your customers they are FAMILY and WE`RE JUST LIKE YOU GUYS. WERE LOOKING OUT FOR YOU. The double edge sword is sharp when it backfires.
    Red One #3**
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