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  1. #2381  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    Film too is engineered to match the visual perception characteristics of the human eye.
    But that's my point, it's been doing it for over a hundred years with millions of professional eyes giving input. Not to match to film first and build on that is trying to re-inventing the wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    If you use film as a reference point, which film stock will you use? A modern digital camera can simulate many. It can also produce visual aesthetics and color that film can't.
    As a separate medium, it deserves exploration on its own just to see what can be done.
    Start with the most commonly used, maybe Kodak Vision3? Many stocks were developed with different goals in mind, but the primary ones aimed for balance. I rather see the use of different OLPFs as the digital equivalent of different stocks, while the "standard" is aimed for similar balance. My point is that the "exploration" should build upon previous knowledge, viewing our current color science as an exploration of its own just feels like ditching previous knowledge and doing that re-invention of the wheel. My point is that the whole debate about film versus digital is futile and irrelevant, we should take all that we know from film and apply to digital color science instead of going through years of unnecessary hurdles because we like to start "fresh".
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  2. #2382  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    This is what film has been doing for over a hundred years. Why re-invent the wheel trying to match digital color science to the human eye when there's so much that can fail in that process due to the human vision and brain interpretation being such a subjective and manipulated reference?
    Because you are Human Being and use human eyes to experience colour.
    It is not reinventing the wheel, it's optimizing the medium properties.

    "So much can fail in the process" in the making of every highly complex thing.
    And it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    Film has been doing it longer, it has gone through thousands if not millions of professional eyes trying to fine-tune it to perfection. To match up to film is to match up to the point of reference we are at in history and then we can build on from that. Why ditch that source and do it from scratch? Arri did it right with Alexa and that's why we're still seeing the same sensor from them even in their LF. While that's part marketing and business relation towards the top people and cinematographers in the industry, much of it also has to do with the actual image result you get from their cameras. While there aren't many gains Alexa has over Red cameras, color science is definitely one of them. Instead of defending back and forth as fanboys do, I'd rather see companies and people actually looking at what is done right and what is done wrong, learning from that and building on top of that.
    You're welcome.
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  3. #2383  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Wifi
    +) I am guessing (hoping) that wireless has moved to 802.11ac IPv5.

    RCP
    +) Suggestion that the startup sequence for 3rd party wifi produces has an option Compressed version of sending all the RCP parameters over 6 large packets rather than 1100 distinct parm updates during login (login time would be at least 5 times faster)

    GUI: Bottom line is : FPS : ISO : IRIS : SHUTTER : WB.
    +) Do you think that 'FPS' and 'SHUTTER' should be grouped together?
    +) 'FPS', 'ANGLE', 'SHUTTER' should all be grouped together. Even if Angle is represented graphically.
    +) 'RESOLUTION' ("SENSOR" takes less space), 'COMPRESSION' ("RC"), and ISO work in concert for an informed setup choice and visual confirmation that nothing is amiss.
    +) Reduce contrast of the titles to reduce apparent visual complexity (have a look at the GUI for INKontrol for comparison).
    Beginners will be able to read the titles, experts have have a cleaner GUI as the titles don't jump out.
    +) f/ and 1/ : Change to a size between this font and superscript

    ISO graphic with linear ruler scale.
    +) As 'ISO' is not far from '150' : It takes more time to distinguish data from label when scanning horizontally.
    +) Do GUI test in which a fixed ISO label is above the magnifier (with slight transparency) : (this will avoid N copies of the word 'ISO' on the screen)
    +) If a scale graphic are desired - would it make more sense for the indents (on top and bottom of the 'ruler') to be Log rather than linear?
    +) "ISO 1280", "ISO 1600" ... : Scrolling Left and Right takes a lot more finger movement than if the list was vertical. (compare with INKontrol)
    If list was vertical - it would likely also be possible to see the entire list of ISO's on screen at once with a Larger font size.
    +) Where mixing data and 'ISO' label :" Suggest increasing contrast of Data over ISO label.

    AJ
    Last edited by Antony Newman; 11-18-2019 at 07:46 AM.
     

  4. #2384  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony Newman View Post

    GUI: Bottom line is : FPS : ISO : IRIS : SHUTTER : WB.
    +) Do you think that 'FPS' and 'SHUTTER' should be grouped together?
    No.

    You don't want 48 and 1/48 next to one another in this context because of visual similarity and accidental wrong choice.

    If it was system logic sequence only, it would be
    Iris > shutter > fps > iso > wb
    or
    iris > fps > shutter > iso > wb

    Iris is likely to be most often used control for many so best to be in the centre and shutter/fps and iso/wb are separated due to overall UI visual balance and numerical resemblance and avoiding the need to make additional distinctions. Prioritized are on the left because you read from left to right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antony Newman View Post
    If list was vertical - it would likely also be possible to see the entire list of ISO's on screen at once with a Larger font size.
    Too much values stuffed make the touch UI fiddly, larger swipes and separations between values make it more practical.

    It's been thought through.

    It's practical, clear and uncluttered with a touch of organicity to make the creative tool feel less computer-like and sterile, with a cool hommage to film workflow.
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    volamos por el universo incentivados por la esperanza"

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  5. #2385  
    Member Colton John McLaughlin's Avatar
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    After such an eventful weekend (THANK YOU JARRED ), I am overjoyed, the question now is:

    Will there be a package deal, with monitor, 2 x batteries, media, cage, and case? (maybe with the RF 28-70 f/2 as well?)
    Last edited by Colton John McLaughlin; 11-18-2019 at 11:41 AM.
     

  6. #2386  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Lochert View Post
    I know I'm easy to please, but I'm just so damn happy to see a dedicated power switch.
    Me too
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  7. #2387  
    Senior Member David Collard's Avatar
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    Wow, can't believe I overlooked the obvious....a picture of a 2X Hawk Anamorphic on Komodo.
    That is so fantastic! Thank you.
     

  8. #2388  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Hrvoje,

    My suggestion that FPS and Shutter are related and should be grouped together is because they need to be set in lock step.
    If the eye has to pass over several unconnected dials - this does not aid direct comparison of FPS and Shutter.

    Here is an example of a grouping which also include the Angle.



    Also : Increased contrast shown here was applied to the data values over the labeling to more rapidly identify useful data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    <snip> You don't want 48 and 1/48 next to one another in this context because of visual similarity and accidental wrong choice.
    AJ
     

  9. #2389  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Vertical vs Horizontal sliding menus

    If there are 16 values for ISO - and only three values can be displayed horizontally on the sliding ruler, it would take at least 5 complete screen swipes to be able to go from the lowest to the highest values. That (IMHO) is a lot of swiping.

    (On the Komodo Screenshot Jarred image earlier in the thread- it displayed : ISO 1000, ISO 1280, ISO 1600.
    The full range of ISO : 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1280, 1600, 2000, 2500, 3200, 4000, 5000, 6400, 12800)

    In the image below - I've created Horizontal and Vertical versions with similar sized fonts.
    The Vertical sliding requires half the the amount of sliding, and has the SAME gap between the data values.

    This (vertical menu) requires HALF the amount of finger movement to alter data values, and also displays TWICE as many options to the user in one time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    <snip> Too much values stuffed make the touch UI fiddly, larger swipes and separations between values make it more practical.
    AJ
     

  10. #2390  
    Senior Member Brian Boyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    It's practical, clear and uncluttered with a touch of organicity to make the creative tool feel less computer-like and sterile, with a cool hommage to film.
    I've said my piece on the Komodo UI. Jarred is clearly happy with it and I'm fairly certain the final look will remain pretty close to what we've already seen. This post isn't about that.

    I do want to address UI design philosophy in a broader sense for those people who may think it has to be an "either, or" choice between flashy and utilitarian, or organic versus computer-like and sterile. Solid State Logic (SSL) is killing it with their Native Plugins. They encompass both contemporary and nostalgic UI design approaches and strike a very good balance between them. They've combined modern graphic design elements with the signature look of legacy SSL large format analog audio consoles dating back to the early 1980s. The design is graphics oriented where it's best served while maintaining an organic, tactile feel with certain photoreal elements. There's a clear nod to their analog roots wrapped in a thoroughly modern, computer-based package. They're cleanly laid out with subtle design cues that give them a very professional feel. They're pleasant to look at and easy on the eyes when working for extended periods.

    To be clear, I'm not suggesting RED make Komodo look like this. These have SSL written all over them and it has taken them a while to get here. The previous incarnations of these plugins were much less refined (see below). I'm just giving people what I think are really good examples of how design doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Sometimes it's hard to have a discussion when people don't realize what's possible.

    Here are some examples (sorry about the large sizes). If you want to see them in action you can check them out here: https://www.solidstatelogic.com/studio/ssl-native

    Before:




    After:









    Last edited by Brian Boyer; 11-20-2019 at 03:36 PM.
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