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  1. #3261  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    Having KOMODO be both the beginning and the END of a product capability and short lived would be kind of "Bummer". And in part a waste of time and effort + $.
    In part? Try "total."

    As the other RED cameras don't have a global shutter.
    Well, Jarred did say that's the main reason for having the option on the Komodo...

    And no one from RED has chimed in to say "Yeah we are gonna keep working on global shuttered sensors for the foreseeable future".
    Given how much money Red is investing in it, why would anyone from Red have to spell that out?

    Remember KOMODO exists originally from Jim Jannard and Hydrogen project ?
    That's backward; the Komodo predated the Hydrogen, which became an add-on, not the other way around.

    Is Venice not switchable from Global to regular scan and back ? Is it either or as ordered ?
    AFAIK the Venice doesn't have a global shutter at all.
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  2. #3262  
    Member Colton John McLaughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    What I'm getting at AS a third party developer that can integrate systems and products for KOMODO especially for advanced 3d (based) applications... (and beyond).

    Having KOMODO be both the beginning and the END of a product capability and short lived would be kind of a "Bummer". And in part a waste of time and effort + $.

    As the other RED cameras don't have a global shutter.

    And no one from RED has chimed in to say "Yeah we are gonna keep working on global shuttered sensors for the foreseeable future".

    Remember KOMODO exists originally from Jim Jannard and Hydrogen project ?

    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

    Is Venice not switchable from Global to regular scan and back ? Is it either or as ordered ?
    Komodo was alive long before HYDROGEN. Please review the entire thread, Jarred states it many times, which is why the hydrogen isn't 100% compatible with the Komodo. Otherwise the Hydrogen would have a wireless connection to Komodo, but it will use USB-C instead now.
     

  3. #3263  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colton John McLaughlin View Post
    Komodo was alive long before HYDROGEN. Please review the entire thread, Jarred states it many times, which is why the hydrogen isn't 100% compatible with the Komodo. Otherwise the Hydrogen would have a wireless connection to Komodo, but it will use USB-C instead now.
    Jarred also said that he inherited the project from Jim Jannard,

    I'm not 100% sure that KOMODO would have existed in it's current form if it was not for Jim Jannard and HYDROGEN...

    (quite in the same way).

    I'm not 100% sure on the time lines and needs of both parallel projects.... And the degree to which KOMODO concept stages were coopted by Jim's needs or vice versa ?

    IT IS a very versatile platform ~ That's part of it's appeal.

    Key point is does RED have a vested interest in globally shuttered sensors ? [for the future ?] .

    I would not bet the farm on that notion YKWIM ?

    IS KOMODO a super awesome one off (or beginning of something new that other similar cameras in the future will be offered in the globally shuttered Block Utility Camera - As Phil Holland types it as.).

    It certainly won't stop people buying truck loads of KOMODOS for their immediate needs and wants.

    Most professional shooters should be able to get the value out of the imagery of KOMODO even if the line is discontinued 18 months from now ; given it's actual price point.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  4. #3264  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
    In part? Try "total."



    Well, Jarred did say that's the main reason for having the option on the Komodo...



    Given how much money Red is investing in it, why would anyone from Red have to spell that out?



    That's backward; the Komodo predated the Hydrogen, which became an add-on, not the other way around.



    AFAIK the Venice doesn't have a global shutter at all.
    Like a lot of tech entrepreneurs Jim Jannard is a also a very good submarine in terms of general areas he's been working on for quite a long time in some cases.

    I'm not sure where one would set the time line for beginning of KOMODO at ?

    I couldn't hazard a guess as to how much Jim Jannard had to spend on HYDROGEN but it has to be in the neighborhood of hundreds of millions of dollars ~ That was a lot of "Big moving parts" as he put it.

    @Rakesh M that's interesting about the Venice (good catch ~ fast scan).
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  5. #3265  
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    The late change to Komodo for the Hydrogen project was adding the POGO interface to support smart phones rather than conventional camera top DSMC style monitors. New sensors like this take years to develop. It was probably in the works long before the Hydrogen project even existed.

    I see no reason why Komodo would not be the first next gen Red cameras if it proves out. Every Red is an evolutionary development.

    I think cinematographers have a vested interest in global shutters. Plus it potentially opens Komodo to industrial and scientific camera markets that require global shutter cameras because they need time coherent images.
     

  6. #3266  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    Jarred also said that he inherited the project from Jim Jannard,
    No, he said he inherited the Hydrogen project from Jim. The camera was already underway before that.

    I'm not 100% sure that KOMODO would have existed in it's current form if it was not for Jim Jannard and HYDROGEN...
    That's true, but as David pointed out the biggest change was support for a phone for monitoring and control, particularly the Hydrogen phone.


    Key point is does RED have a vested interest in globally shuttered sensors ? [for the future ?] .
    Red has a vested interest in developing sensors that people want, and cameras to enable them to use those sensors.
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  7. #3267  
    Member Colton John McLaughlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    Jarred also said that he inherited the project from Jim Jannard,

    I'm not 100% sure that KOMODO would have existed in it's current form if it was not for Jim Jannard and HYDROGEN...

    (quite in the same way).

    I'm not 100% sure on the time lines and needs of both parallel projects.... And the degree to which KOMODO concept stages were coopted by Jim's needs or vice versa ?

    IT IS a very versatile platform ~ That's part of it's appeal.

    Key point is does RED have a vested interest in globally shuttered sensors ? [for the future ?] .

    I would not bet the farm on that notion YKWIM ?

    IS KOMODO a super awesome one off (or beginning of something new that other similar cameras in the future will be offered in the globally shuttered Block Utility Camera - As Phil Holland types it as.).

    It certainly won't stop people buying truck loads of KOMODOS for their immediate needs and wants.

    Most professional shooters should be able to get the value out of the imagery of KOMODO even if the line is discontinued 18 months from now ; given it's actual price point.
    I think Komodo is the way forward for RED.

    DSMC2 will live on, there will be like a 12K sensor or something crazy, or 8K Dual ISO...

    Komodo will come in 6K, then eventually 8K. Maybe a Dual ISO option.

    Then DSMC3 will be similar form factor to DSMC2, but maybe have some design options of Komodo (like rf mount, but this time with a locking ring)

    DSMC3 will have a hybrid Gemini/Komodo sensor to start, so you get all the perks of DSMC2, but with Dual ISO, Global Shutter, and AUTOFOCUS!!!

    This is all speculation but this is where I see RED going in the next 7 years....
     

  8. #3268  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
    No, he said he inherited the Hydrogen project from Jim. The camera was already underway before that.



    That's true, but as David pointed out the biggest change was support for a phone for monitoring and control, particularly the Hydrogen phone.




    Red has a vested interest in developing sensors that people want, and cameras to enable them to use those sensors.
    The HYDROGEN project encompassed other cameras as well, not just cell phones and H4V formats + LEIA RED displays.

    If you go through the patent literature there were some really interesting different camera designs and really interesting alternate interconnecting lens mounts etc. And several different imager ideas / cameras floated out there for larger future HYDROGEN ecosystem.

    Also around the time there were initial exploratory discussions with Terry Gou and FOXCONN as well as other needs and some other really BIG moving parts (as big as it gets).

    These are shifting sands on Global scale. Even the Foxconn plant in Wisconsin has been repurpose somewhat since then.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________

    I think it would be super awesome IF RED continued to develop other globally sensored cameras [As that would be super helpful to our aims.] but as the RED Motto and Maxim states "Everything can and will change.". ].

    Personally I don't see why RED would develop a globally shuttered camera ? (in the first place ? / per say ? ) Given various applications spaces and tradeoffs and needs for commercial broadcast and Film industry ?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

  9. #3269  
    Senior Member Rakesh Malik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    The HYDROGEN project encompassed other cameras as well, not just cell phones and H4V formats + LEIA RED displays.

    If you go through the patent literature there were some really interesting different camera designs and really interesting alternate interconnecting lens mounts etc. And several different imager ideas / cameras floated out there for larger future HYDROGEN ecosystem.

    Also around the time there were initial exploratory discussions with Terry Gou and FOXCONN as well as other needs and some other really BIG moving parts (as big as it gets).
    None of this has anything to do with the fact that the Komodo camera was in development already.

    I think it would be super awesome IF RED continued to develop other globally sensored cameras [As that would be super helpful to our aims.] but as the RED Motto and Maxim states "Everything can and will change.". ].

    Personally I don't see why RED would develop a globally shuttered camera ? (in the first place ? / per say ? ) Given various applications spaces and tradeoffs and needs for commercial broadcast and Film industry ?
    Jarred already said that several customers had been asking for cameras with global shutters.
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    http://WinterLight.studio
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  10. #3270  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colton John McLaughlin View Post
    I think Komodo is the way forward for RED.

    DSMC2 will live on, there will be like a 12K sensor or something crazy, or 8K Dual ISO...

    Komodo will come in 6K, then eventually 8K. Maybe a Dual ISO option.

    Then DSMC3 will be similar form factor to DSMC2, but maybe have some design options of Komodo (like rf mount, but this time with a locking ring)

    DSMC3 will have a hybrid Gemini/Komodo sensor to start, so you get all the perks of DSMC2, but with Dual ISO, Global Shutter, and AUTOFOCUS!!!

    This is all speculation but this is where I see RED going in the next 7 years....
    I really hope so !!! YKWIM ?

    But I never get what I want

    So what works for RED right now and various histories and money(s) spent thereof (for reasons that we may one day learn), and what they want to do in the future might not be in-line with what our group / little ship would love to run with and put into other people's hands some very cool capabilities.

    Short of building your own sensors from scratch (which is something I don't want to do) I really hope you are right @Colton John McLaughlin, there are some really amazing capabilities that can be enabled by a KOMODO like sensor.

    Honestly you never know what RED is gonna do next, that makes them a very interesting company.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

    A 25 year long equipment list / toy box of stuff that's waaaaaaay too long and too bizarre and obscure to mention (even here).

    ~ But the HYDROGENS I have kicking about the place could be "Handy" for a bit of reduced price KOMODO "Action" ;-)
     

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