Thread: Strange-clip-Monstro

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Aaron,


    I understand what you are saying. I noticed that about 6 or 8 months ago when first trying to recover some overexposed r3d files. it seems the cooler you make the image, the more recoverable the highlights are. But I believe I remember RED mentioning something awhile back about the highlight recovery algorithm having something to do with the "Blue" Channel of the RGB image.

    So it would make since that the algorithm would exhibit better recovery characteristics at different color temperatures. The problem is what it is until Red Explains why this is happening or if its even a problem at all.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member luigivaltulini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Don't use camera metadata color temperature adjustments. Instead, use your primary offsets to reduce exposure and then use color temperature adjustments also using Resolve controls. No clipping...
    Thanks Jack,
    normally my colorist doesn't use metadata, yep this is best way.

    This thing came out during a short film where at a certain point we wanted everything to be warmer .. and at that point I saw the faces deteriorate on the faces and some parts of the frame .. I thought it was a problem of some Davinci setting.
    However I don't like this thing ...

    There is no way to correct, you have to stay 1 or 2 stops less light, or be sure to stay in a temperature range no more than 500 degrees above or below, especially in the most illuminated parts.

    Thanks Aaron e Rand ;)
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    You're welcome Luigi! Maybe the Red Team or Phil can shed more light on this.
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Luigi,

    Something else I learned maybe longer than 8 months ago and I believe it was from red files you posted last year. Whereas Monstro only needs a certain Temp. To be more recoverable, Helium and Gemini need both Temp and Tint to be equally as recoverable as Monstro. Again, maybe Graeme or Phil or another member of the Red Team can explain why this is.
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  5. #15  
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    So basically you have more dynamic range at a very particular white balance and tint, this is good thing?

    Or stated another way, Red loses dynamic range as you stray from a particular white balance and tint? Can this "added" dynamic range ever be seen WITHOUT this post process?
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Jake,

    Yes but you have to start from a warmer temp like around like 5000 to 5600k and go towards around 3000 to 3200k.However, If you shoot at 3000 to 3200k and over expose an image there will be no way to recover it by going warmer towards 5000 to 5600 , it will only make it worse. This is what I think Luigi has discovered.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    Jake,

    Yes but you have to start from a warmer temp like around like 5000 to 5600k and go towards around 3000 to 3200k.However, If you shoot at 3000 to 3200k and over expose an image there will be no way to recover it by going warmer towards 5000 to 5600 , it will only make it worse. This is what I think Luigi has discovered.
    No, as I said, if you don't use metadata adjustments, there is no limitation in primary grades regardless of color temperature direction. I speculate, Red SDK works in this order- first Color Temp and then Exposure. In that case, some of the color channels would get clipped before you can adjust the exposure. But by using Primaries, you can first reduce the Exposure and then adjust Color Temperature without the clipping. Regardless, there is ZERO reason to use metadata adjustments, as it was clearly shown by FilmLight. In the video they use Alexa RAW material, but the same principal still applies to Red RAW. Baselight can easily duplicate all metadata adjustments with the Basegrade operator. Resolve too can perform similar thing, just not as elegantly, quickly nor precisely...
    https://vimeo.com/251798431
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Jake,

    I was actually referring to Jake Wilganowski`s post. But yeah, you would know much better than I as you are the seasoned colorist in this discussion. So if I am understanding you correctly, when you say Color Temp you are referring to Primary color correction and not Camera Raw "Temp". Also , and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying it's best not to use Camera Raw`s Temp and Tint to correct for clipping in a R3d file ? I saw the video you posted which indeed uses Alexa footage , but from trying to recover both from overexposure, The Alexa files were easier to recover in the method you suggest than the red files

    If Aaron or if he would allow me to post the +5 stop overexposed Red Raw file, would you have the time to show the result of your methodology to remedy this problem? I tried every traditional conventional approach "I" could think of to solve this problem. What I used to recover Aaron's clip on the first page was the best "I" could come up with.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand thompson View Post
    Jake,

    I was actually referring to Jake Wilganowski`s post. But yeah, you would know much better than I as you are the seasoned colorist in this discussion. So if I am understanding you correctly, when you say Color Temp you are referring to Primary color correction and not Camera Raw "Temp". Also , and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying it's best not to use Camera Raw`s Temp and Tint to correct for clipping in a R3d file ? I saw the video you posted which indeed uses Alexa footage , but from trying to recover both from overexposure, The Alexa files were easier to recover in the method you suggest than the red files

    If Aaron or if he would allow me to post the +5 stop overexposed Red Raw file, would you have the time to show the result of your methodology to remedy this problem? I tried every traditional conventional approach "I" could think of to solve this problem. What I used to recover Aaron's clip on the first page was the best "I" could come up with.
    All I am saying, for MYSELF only, I find the manipulation of the camera metadata usually is unnecessary.
    As far as the overexposure goes, again, for MYSELF, I find once Red material is grossly overexposed, it is pretty much impossible to recover. You may use a bit of Baselight's Highlight Texture too make clipped highlits to look less harsh, but that will not help in bringing those highlights back. On the other hand, Alexa almost never clips the highlights, even when shot on Prores. There is no special methodology in dealing with clipped highlights, regardless of grading platform, once it's clipped, it stays clipped...
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Adrian Jebef's Avatar
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    When you change Color Temp / Tint you basically change RGB channel gain settings from camera native which in turn changes your output image values ie: exposure. To state it another way, WB/T settings are directly related to exposure under colored light sources. Even though WB/T setting can be changed in raw the RGB channels are locked in exposure values so all you are doing is adjusting the ratios of the channels. If you have no more over/under range on your channel limits you will get over/under exposure when you adjust WB/T. This is what Luigi ran into. Although all digital cameras exhibit this behavior Red Cams seem to be far more susceptible to it in certain ways.
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