ENG/EFP Package

[TimothyD]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to make a request of the Red Team, and will just cross my fingers it can come to fruition.

I'd really like to see Red release an ENG turn-key package. Preferably with some slight discount for buying the whole shot.

In requesting this I'd like to point out that I am assuming that the Supergrip will give me the same kind of control I'm used to with a standard ENG style lens zoom control, though I'd welcome some other options in addition like a fine adjustment wheel in addition to a more coarse rocker control.

This package would include:

Red One - $17,500
Basic Production Pack - $1,250
Power Pack - $1,450
EVF - $2,950
Arm - $175
18-85 mm Zoom - $8,995?
Supergrip - $???
Red Motor - $???

Ideally if this package could come in at around 35 grand I'd be glad to put up my deposit immediately. I realize this may be a lot to ask depending on the as yet unannounced price of the supergrip and motor. If you guys can announce this, and take my deposit, I'm ready. Shoot me an e-mail if so and I'll put the wheels in motion.

[PMascetta]

Why dont we worry about getting a finished product first without other demands. Everyone seems to forget its a 4K under 20g camera WOW!!! WHo needs anything else.:)

[Mike the beginner]

Why dont we worry about getting a finished product first without other demands. Everyone seems to forget its a 4K under 20g camera WOW!!! WHo needs anything else.:)

Primes. zooms and accessories have all received reds attention and rightly so. Red team knows what is important at each stage of their development. That is why these items have been given due consideration. That is why they are working closely with "selected third parties like Birger Engineering" as an example to ensure the still lenses option (the cheap option if you like) is going to work reasonably well and allow red to grab more of the market share for their camera. Gibby and others have done an exhaustive input in the needs of all users etc we thank them for their efforts.

This request was perfectly reasonable There is nothing wrong in asking for such a package deal to be considered, it does not hold back the development of the red one, indeed the availability of the lenses and accessories has highlighted the fact that red are not just camera makers or one hit wonders.

Nab has enabled red to show off its products and give mention to future products. Thus Red has just raised the game and taken a giant leap forward with its aim to be the best camera company in the world. Some big camera companies are already seeing red as a force to be reckoned with and not just because of its camera.

I am sure red team knows they have a brilliant camera as it stands for cine use. More work was needed to gain support for other areas. Red team are on to it with the support of third parties as above. All of this will enhance the red one for all syles and needs. There are no fools in the red team, they know what has to be done.


Mike the beginner

[TimothyD]

In asking for this I am merely hoping that they will take the existing parts and put together a package with a small discount that makes one of what I imagine will be one of the most common configurations of the Red One a tiny bit cheaper than it would be if you were to buy all the parts separately.

I am definitely not asking the Red team to abandon their development of cine related products. I do hope however that in designing accessories such as the super grip that the ENG/EFP market is kept in mind, as we will end up being the majority of the Red user base, if not now, in the coming year or so.

I suppose another reason for this thread is to get those who are interested in using the Red One for ENG/EFP to vote in support of a package deal. The more people that vote for this, the more likely it is that we might see it happen. I'd never ask any of the competitors to offer a package deal, because they have shown that the needs of users primarily fall on deaf ears. Since Red is the exact opposite, I thought it would be worth it to ask.

Another key reason is that if they were to offer an ENG/EFP package, then it shows that they feel the camera will kick ass in that capacity. I feel like it will, but I don't know jack about the cine end of things, and would love to be saved a lot of time and hassle in choosing a workable setup.

Bottom line is I am just happy they have decided to do the supergrip and motor. This to me fills a huge gap, because I'd rather have a turn key solution than have to piece something together Frankenstein style. If they sell a package I know it will not only work, but it will kick ass.

[Hop Litzwire]

I'm all for enhancing the RED for ENG/EFP use. I produce/shoot a show for a major cable network, and though we do a lot of very cinematically-styled shooting for B-roll and interviews, we have our cameras on our shoulders much of the time. I would like to see RED, or any digital cinema camera maker, seriously consider all the same rigors that makers of ENG-style video cameras have (we use Varicam, HDX900, and SDX900 for our show). I used to use a CP-16 on a show when I was a kid (and used it on some music videos too), and seemingly one could use the exact same lens/control setup as was the norm for the CP-16, or at least something very similar, but I think it would behoove RED, SI, and others to consider a package that would make and ENG'er feel more at home when operating the camera - certainly the user base would increase by 30 to 50 times if that were the case. Many argue, "Well why don't you just get an ENG camera if that's what you need." Well, in our case we have, but we have some elements about our show that warrant taking the image to the next level; PLUS many producers like myself that do nature, sports, and travelogue shows also produce commercials and other types of productions where you have more control. It would be nice to see a camera like RED cover all these bases like a Varicam does, but with better quality, of course. You can put a Varicam on your shoulder, and you can make a narrative TV movie of acceptable quality with it, but if you project it, you run into problems. If RED were to accomodate the need for an ENG setup, it would cover all of those things. One thing that hasn't been discussed that much, that relates to ENG/EFP work, is RED's and other Digital Cinema cameras' tolerance of exterior elements and temperatures. I'm not saying RED should be ready to take to Everest now or in the next year, but Digital Cinema camera makers should be looking into how far these cameras can go with the elements, so that in the not too distant future one might be able to see a RED take a trip to the highest, lowest, driest, and wettest points of the Earth. From what I understand of Jim Jannard, I would imagine these things are being considered.

[Ken Corben]

... but Digital Cinema camera makers should be looking into how far these cameras can go with the elements, so that in the not too distant future one might be able to see a RED take a trip to the highest, lowest, driest, and wettest points of the Earth. From what I understand of Jim Jannard, I would imagine these things are being considered.

Well said - I think this type of solution is on their "to do list" but their are only 24 hours in a day. I hope to contribute to the far flung corners of the planet with RED.

[JohnF]

I totally agree too!

One of the big things I noticed about electronic cameras was the tendency for ambient temperature to effect the feel/tone/quality of the picture due to the thermal noise characteristics of the CCD (esp. if the camera changes temp during shooting), not to mention battery life!!!

JohnF

[Stuart English]

It would be nice to see a camera like RED cover all these bases like a Varicam does, but with better quality, of course. You can put a Varicam on your shoulder, and you can make a narrative TV movie of acceptable quality with it, but if you project it, you run into problems. If RED were to accomodate the need for an ENG setup, it would cover all of those things.

I'm with you on that one. Except we prefer to refer to that as EFP rather than ENG, so as to avoid discussions about RED for "news"

[TimothyD]

"I'm with you on that one. Except we prefer to refer to that as EFP rather than ENG, so as to avoid discussions about RED for "news"

Hi Stuart,

While I do shoot quite a bit of ENG style stuff, the range of what I do is much broader than that and is probably 90% EFP. I see Red as my perfect camera because while I may shoot boring interviews a lot, I also shoot archival footage of the campus of the college I work at, and often high profile people who come through to speak.

The first thing that drew me to the Red was the idea that the stuff I shoot will still be useful many years down the road. Something that the historical library will be quite happy about.

The thing is, I am no cinema expert. I am a jack of all trades and take all of my projects through from start to finish alone. So I really need some solid advice on a setup that will work for me as a turn-key system. I need to be able to zoom a great distance to capture candid shots, and five minutes later shoot an interview.

So I guess what I really need to know is will I be able to run and gun as well with a Red and say a Canon KJ20x5.8-KRS as I can now with my 15+ year old Sony BetaSP camera with a 17x lens? I am guessing the size and weight are going to be about the same, but I need to know if I will be able to make it work otherwise. (and of course would love a chance to save a few bucks for more accessories)

I realize that as you guys are all about cinema, I am probably a low priority right now, but I really want to choose Red over the competition and have the money to make it happen. I just need to know that this can be my all around camera, as I won't have money for a b-roll camera.

[Steve Gibby]

I realize that as you guys are all about cinema, I am probably a low priority right now, but I really want to choose Red over the competition and have the money to make it happen. I just need to know that this can be my all around camera, as I won't have money for a b-roll camera.

I assure you that RED One was never intended to be "all about cinema". On the contrary, the EFP capability of RED One was planned right from the very beginning. If you read my published interview with Jim Jannard over a year ago we talked about the planned EFP capability of RED One. I have a cine-style and EFP style background, but when I attended the very first spec meeting for RED One in December 2005, I made it a point of making specific EFP capability suggestions. Stuart English has an extensive background in the development of EFP cameras for Panasonic. RED One can be your all around camera. It's going to be my all around camera, which I re-lens and re-accessorize for each project, whether it be cine-style or EFP style. Read my "EFP and ENG with RED" FAQ at the head of the home page for this forum. It should give you some additional ideas for EFP use of your RED One camera.

RED One is a digital cinema camera that can be very effectively used for a wide variety of EFP production genres. IMO users imaginations, skill sets, and attitudes will be the main limiting factors on RED One use.