Thread: Panasonic LUMIX S1H Full Overview 6K Test Footage and System Review First Look

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  1. #141  
    Senior Member mikeburton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Well if director really really wants to only shoot in 6K on a $4500 hybrid camera, there's no point saying that recording resolution has zero relation to colour accuracy, 4:2:0 has lower chroma resoluton, and that 200Mb/s 6K is not in the same league as broadcast quality 4K 4:2:2 400Mb/s let alone 4K Prores you'd get with recorder.

    : )
    I realize the 6K is 4:2:0 compared to the UHD 422 but we did do testing before using these cameras and the UHD didn’t have the same sharpness and overall didn’t look as appealing to him. That said, it’s pretty ridiculous the camera can’t down scale properly when recording at any resolution, no? I don’t own the camera’s so I obviously have no reason to defend it’s short comings and frankly you shouldn’t either? I think it’s a cool little camera but it also won’t do UHD 60p at Full frame which again is a big down side. People are buying these and wanting to use them for the full frame sensor so this is a bummer. The more I use this camera the more I don’t like using it. Also, every time we switch cards the camera automatically goes to 240” degree shutter? Perhaps that’s a setting I can’t find? I don’t know, I just feel like I’m fighting this cameras inadequacies.
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  2. #142  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    I realize the 6K is 4:2:0 compared to the UHD 422 but we did do testing before using these cameras and the UHD didn’t have the same sharpness and overall didn’t look as appealing to him. That said, it’s pretty ridiculous the camera can’t down scale properly when recording at any resolution, no? I don’t own the camera’s so I obviously have no reason to defend it’s short comings and frankly you shouldn’t either? I think it’s a cool little camera but it also won’t do UHD 60p at Full frame which again is a big down side. People are buying these and wanting to use them for the full frame sensor so this is a bummer. The more I use this camera the more I don’t like using it. Also, every time we switch cards the camera automatically goes to 240” degree shutter? Perhaps that’s a setting I can’t find? I don’t know, I just feel like I’m fighting this cameras inadequacies.
    Are you comparing 6k with full frame 4k or 4k crop?
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  3. #143  
    Senior Member mikeburton's Avatar
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    Yes, full frame 4K.
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  4. #144  
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    Sony, Arri, Panasonic and maybe others are using a technique to get a better 4k. 6k cameras have a real resolution little above 4k. Went in seminar with Alistar Chapman and explained in detail. 6k means you get a good quality 4k image.
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  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    I realize the 6K is 4:2:0 compared to the UHD 422 but we did do testing before using these cameras and the UHD didn’t have the same sharpness and overall didn’t look as appealing to him.
    Well good for him then.

    I did the testing side by side with Alexa Mini LF and S1H and didn't miss any resolution/sharpness/acuity on S1H whatsoever. That's a $100K Arri setup with Supreme Prime next to $6.5K S1H setup with Panasonic prime.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    That said, it’s pretty ridiculous the camera can’t down scale properly when recording at any resolution, no?
    It has excellent detailed image scaled to 4K from a 6K sensor. Texture with NR and sharpness turned off is also great and cinema grade.

    Since I had zero interest to shoot 200Mbs 4:2:0 6K with thrown out chroma resolution and consumer level compression I didn't even bother to test camera options in that mode.

    If it's maxed out, not getting something you wish for further, beyond the hardware capabilities, to me doesn't seem as ridiculous but logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    I don’t own the camera’s so I obviously have no reason to defend it’s short comings and frankly you shouldn’t either?
    I don't "defend cameras". I do however, find their flaws, setup, test, advise, give critical feedback and improve. Tough over the years on the forum I've been percevied a few times as Sony, Red & Arri etc fanboy when the camera advantages were pointed and got Sony, Red & Arri and other biased mindsets upset when criticism was pointed out, in both cases by perceived some kind of opposition from the chosen angle. So the initial impression here is unsurprising.

    I can think of tons of features cameras don't have, but I tend to focus on what they do, trying to understanding why they don't, while aligning the imagination so it doesn't lead to dissatisfacton with tools vastly superior than we ever had before.

    I can imagine this thing shooting on board 16bit raw motion imagery with 120p FF. Wouldn't that be great, but there are laws of electronics/physics/hardware development, standing between products of my imagination and physical reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    I think it’s a cool little camera but it also won’t do UHD 60p at Full frame which again is a big down side.
    How many broadcast quality C4K capable FF stills/hybrid cameras on the planet shoot 4K/UHD 60p in full frame ?
    While we are at it, how many FF cameras in general today do that ?
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  6. #146  
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    So you own one.
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  7. #147  
    Nope.
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  8. #148  
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    :-)
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  9. #149  
    Senior Member mikeburton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Well good for him then.

    I did the testing side by side with Alexa Mini LF and S1H and didn't miss any resolution/sharpness/acuity on S1H whatsoever. That's a $100K Arri setup with Supreme Prime next to $6.5K S1H setup with Panasonic prime.



    It has excellent detailed image scaled to 4K from a 6K sensor. Texture with NR and sharpness turned off is also great and cinema grade.

    Since I had zero interest to shoot 200Mbs 4:2:0 6K with thrown out chroma resolution and consumer level compression I didn't even bother to test camera options in that mode.

    If it's maxed out, not getting something you wish for further, beyond the hardware capabilities, to me doesn't seem as ridiculous but logical.



    I don't "defend cameras". I do however, find their flaws, setup, test, advise, give critical feedback and improve. Tough over the years on the forum I've been percevied a few times as Sony, Red & Arri etc fanboy when the camera advantages were pointed and got Sony, Red & Arri and other biased mindsets upset when criticism was pointed out, in both cases by perceived some kind of opposition from the chosen angle. So the initial impression here is unsurprising.

    I can think of tons of features cameras don't have, but I tend to focus on what they do, trying to understanding why they don't, while aligning the imagination so it doesn't lead to dissatisfacton with tools vastly superior than we ever had before.

    I can imagine this thing shooting on board 16bit raw motion imagery with 120p FF. Wouldn't that be great, but there are laws of electronics/physics/hardware development, standing between products of my imagination and physical reality.




    How many broadcast quality C4K capable FF stills/hybrid cameras on the planet shoot 4K/UHD 60p in full frame ?
    While we are at it, how many FF cameras in general today do that ?
    Wait, you just said you never tested the camera in 6K mode and yet you’re disputing the fact there is no potential image benefits...without even a simple test on your part? Also, you are misenterpreting what I said above. I was speaking to the fact that the camera can’t display an image out of the HDMI port when recording in 6K mode, not how the 4K is down sampled from the 6K sensor to the disk when recording. That’s what should be a no brainer. Professionals need to see an image when recording and frankly if the UHD is a compromise (which to us it appears it is) the camera doesn’t give you an option but to shoot with the compromised 4K image because you can’t adaquitly monitor the 6K image.
    And regardless of what other camera in it’s price point can do full frame 4K @ 60p or not is irrelevant as I was just pointing out that this camera cannot which again is another down side to it. Not to mention futzing around in an overly dense and crowded menu system. Eh, it’s just not for me.
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  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    Wait, you just said you never tested the camera in 6K mode and yet you’re disputing the fact there is no potential image benefits...
    Nope.

    The benefits may be slightly improved acuity at the cost of lower chroma sampling and higher compression. There is obviously readout/bandwidth/processing cap at some point and to be able to achieve one factor to the max there are tradeoffs with other factors.

    Option B may have been that there is no 6K recording option or even S1H at all, until fully capable for complete 6K functionality. Would you have preferred that scenario ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    Also, you are misenterpreting what I said above. I was speaking to the fact that the camera can’t display an image out of the HDMI port when recording in 6K mode, not how the 4K is down sampled from the 6K sensor to the disk when recording.
    Yes, I understod that and pointed out the benefit you get instead.

    Glass half empty ?

    :)

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    Professionals need to see an image when recording and frankly if the UHD is a compromise (which to us it appears it is) the camera doesn’t give you an option but to shoot with the compromised 4K image because you can’t adaquitly monitor the 6K image.

    It seems as a compromise if one's reference is personal expectation with a $4500 camera.
    If reference is a $100K Arri setup which will see a bunch of film sets and top budget projects, there are no dissapointments in acuity department whatsoever. And DR for that matter. And it seems as technological achievement.

    #perspectivematters


    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    And regardless of what other camera in it’s price point can do full frame 4K @ 60p or not is irrelevant as I was just pointing out that this camera cannot which again is another down side to it. Not to mention futzing around in an overly dense and crowded menu system. Eh, it’s just not for me.
    I understand.

    My comments were not negating others' impressions but expanding.

    Regarding menus, that is a typical issue with hybrid and video cameras where engineering mindset has to meet marketing approach, implementing a constantly rising number of features and settings for a wide market in a single device. They have added project setup filtering for customization and cinema style GUI for quick access to project and camera setup, improving the practicality and usability significantly, so there is movement in a positive direction.
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