Thread: Filmmaker Mode - UHD Alliance

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    Nobody is saying this.
    When you disable ALL controls, that means "That is the only way you can watch the movie", no exceptions. I despise HFR, but that is beside the point. If consumer wants it, you can't tell them how to watch the material on their own TVs. In the movie theaters, sure, but at home? Sorry...
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    I though dolby vision already did this, plus hdr and best possible color setting for the given tv model, no? Seams like this filmakermode is a bit short in comparision, no?
    Yes, that is correct, but HDR is brand new technology, which is still work in progress. DolbyVision V4 TV sets are still very few out-there and V4 needs a couple of years to fully roll out. For example, at this point, only Nucoda and Resolve support V4, so DolbyVision has a long way to go before it is considered mainstream. Again, in the theaters it is much more established technology and, unlike in TV, filmmakers have full control as to how to display it there.
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  3. #13  
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    Not against it, but it does seem like a 'Preservation Mode' to me.

    Go to an art gallery.
    Go to the theatre.
    Read a book.
    Listen to a radio play.
    Watch a movie.
    Watch commercial TV.

    All valuable forms of entertainment and expression imo, which should be preserved. But they are all products of the time they grew out of, and that time is, ever increasingly, not now.

    There are core factors that run through all those mediums, and those factors are still in effect in the newer means of entertainment and expression that already exist and that are currently emerging. The new forms are just as valid.

    Luckily it doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and with initiatives like this, the creators intent can become more evident and help allow a more accurate perception and assessment of their work (for better or worse).
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    When you disable ALL controls, that means "That is the only way you can watch the movie", no exceptions. I despise HFR, but that is beside the point. If consumer wants it, you can't tell them how to watch the material on their own TVs. In the movie theaters, sure, but at home? Sorry...
    To repeat once more: you don't have to use this mode if you don't want to. You're over-thinking it. Chillax.

    You don't have to use motion smoothing either. In fact you can de-colorize b&w films if your TV lets you completely desaturate. You can even zoom into the image of a cinemascope movie if you really want - your TV allows you to do this. You don't have to. But you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Les Hillis View Post
    Not against it, but it does seem like a 'Preservation Mode' to me.
    That's exactly right, because that's what it is. ;-) And it's a binary option - it's either activated or it isn't.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    I think the one button option is an elegant solution. For the many folks who aren't hip to the why, but are aware it "doesn't look like a movie", it's perfect. Scorsese and other high profile filmmakers can even put notices on the front credits of their films advising audiences to enable Filmmaker Mode. Some will, some won't - but for those who want to, it should be easy. Just sayin'

    Cheers - #19
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    If you want to see the way creatives intended to see the movie, go to a movie theater. At home it's up to the individual to see the movie they want to see it and manufacturers will listen and deliver. You can't legislate "creative intent". All I can say is remember the time everyone lost their collective shit, when in Game of Thrones the Battle scene was too dark. Regardless of HBO protestations, viewers were furious even demanding to re-shoot the episode. What about the time when Superman look was deemed too desaturated and some were posting their own versions of grade? It's a waste of time trying to tell viewers how to watch TV, in the same way Tarantino and Nolan insist on only using film. Film is great and some living in LA can see "Once upon a time in Hollywood" as intended on film at Tarantino's own theater, but everyone else will see it in a digital form, regardless of his desire to preserve the film medium.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    To repeat once more: you don't have to use this mode if you don't want to. You're over-thinking it. Chillax.
    That is not so clear cut as you making it out. First, right now we have no idea if selection of this mode will be mandatory. Will there be a Filmmaker mode logo, like DolbyVision and all your controls will be disabled or you will need to select this mode yourself? If it is not compulsory mode, then we already know, based on research I had mentioned, people didn't like the mode where using something like Filmmaker Mode "will disable all post-processing settings so the movie or show is displayed as the filmmaker intended". The bottom line, I think it's a big waste of time. Anyone here knows how to defeat all those needless enhancements and watch films properly already without someone disabling all enhancements for us.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    I hear you Jake, but I believe there is a chunk of viewers between the hard cores and the misguided. People who lack the technical expertise to quickly remove all those needless enhancements (especially in the horrid menu systems of some displays) but actually do want to see a movie look like a movie.

    If your point is that Filmmaker Mode is not a magic bullet, but is being portrayed as one, I support your pushback. OTOH, I do think it has real value and perhaps a secondary benefit of promoting the value of artistic intent. FWIW, I'd advocate for flags that would require the viewer to "opt out" of the recommended settings in the header - but the specter of confused Philistines with torches...

    Cheers - #19
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Good points Blair. Unfortunately we must take technology progression into an account as well. The idea of Filmmaker Mode itself is good, until you realize, that the majority of films and shows, that were mastered in DolbyVision make Filmmaker intent completely obscured and frankly unavailable by the process itself. Let's face it, DolbyVision is quickly becoming the standard for many and soon for the majority of the movies and shows that are are mastered. In the DolbyVision process, Rec-709 version is always derived from DolbyVision and creation of Rec-709 always uses DolbyVision algorithm, that "interprets" the actual filmmaker intent. DolbyVision is pretty good at the interpretation, but L1 layer- Analisys is just that- an interpretation. Even having an L2- Trim layer introduces another layer of interpretation by the colorist. So, what exactly is the point of the FilmMaker mode then, if in Rec-709 is not the original work and in reality is a DolbyVison version, which already is a DolbyVision mode, where all controls already disabled? I just don't get it. Filmmakers who are concerned about preserving the original intent should concentrate on enticing people to go to the movie theaters and see movies there and not creating more confusion for the average viewer by introducing yet another viewing mode...
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Ideally, all premium content would be distributed in DolbyVision and/or HDR10+, rec 2020 compliant, at decent bit rates. If your display can't accurately render the imagery, then replace it. See, that was easy ;-)

    Joking aside, I'm encouraged that you are seeing DolbyVision becoming the mastering standard.

    Cheers - #19
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