Thread: IPP2 and LOG + LUT

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  1. #1 IPP2 and LOG + LUT 
    Senior Member Brendan H. Banks's Avatar
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    So this is something I've explored a few times before but am wanted to get sort of the "final word" on.

    I love using IPP2, baked in LUTs for proxies, and all the different options that come with. I've been working with LUTs designed for IPP2 and the pipeline for a while now and love them. Recently I was at Company 3 to color a feature and when working with my artist we were discussing making some custom LUTs for me to use in the future. When chatting I mentioned my workflow and how working inside Red's output transforms is how I'm doing it. Because of his transform process, we'd want to lay the LUTs he designs right on top of my RWG/L3G10 footage without Red's transform. Is there a way to do this without toggling back over to Legacy? If we go back to legacy, I can no longer bake in my LUT to the proxies...which makes things a little difficult for the offline.

    If this is not an option, is it possible that it could be in a future firmware update? Looking more at the Red team for this info. It would be a huge help for folks who are designing their own LUTs or working with a colorist in this way.

    For reference, I'm on an Epic-W Helium.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Brendan,


    You can make Luts designed to work with the IPP2 Transform Luts, but this would require the IPP2 Transform Luts. You can layer an IPP2 Transform Lut together with a grading Lut so that the IPP2 tranform Lut Carries out its transformation before the grading lut but simultaneously. This would be an " All in one" Lut. Or, you can just grade from the raw log image, but you will not have the"Out of Gamut" color capabilities, the Highlight Recovery Algorithm, nor would you get the colors as intended by Red.
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  3. #3  
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    As far as I am aware, this is *not* possible. From what I've been told, this is how panavision decided the DXL/DXL2 should work; being Legacy RWG/L3G10, with their LUTs applied overtop (though I'm not sure if you can bake the LUTs into proxies or not with it either). The part that bugs me is that when you select "none" for the highlight roll-off and output tone map, you'd think it should look the same as the legacy mode RWG/L3G10... but it doesn't. #facepalm.

    All that being said, while it's a bit of a pain, all the LUTs are kept in the folder, so it's really just a matter of applying it in the NLE (which typically can be done unilaterally to the project). So its not *that* much extra work.
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  4. #4  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Post-side this is very doable. You want to mainly export the Primary RAW Development or output the RWGRGB/Log3G10 via the SDK. You can even bypass all of RED's stuff if need be and craft your own.

    In camera a little bit different at the moment, but in post you are gravy.

    Legacy mode doesn't have a lot of the features of IPP2. Outside of a few very specific use cases with IPP2 so broadly supported I'd strongly recommend going the route of the newer workflow.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Brendan H. Banks's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    In camera a little bit different at the moment, but in post you are gravy.
    Yeah this was the workflow on that feature. Wanting to be able to monitor in camera with a custom show LUT designed by my colorist who is more interested in working outside Red's transforms (not knocking anything, as artists we all have our own preferences). Hoping that this might be something added in the future with a firmware update. I could say it's easy, however these things usually open a can of code worms.

    Would be killer for the Red team to consider as a future update if it's possible. I have seen posts since the release of IPP2 that echo this sentiment and it would be another great tool to work with.
    Brendan H. Banks
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  6. #6  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Agreed. What you can do today is actually deploy the LUT via the client monitor and feet it IPP2.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Agreed. What you can do today is actually deploy the LUT via the client monitor and feet it IPP2.
    But he wants them baked into the proxies.
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  8. #8  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    But he wants them baked into the proxies.
    Yes, I agree that the feature would be nice to be added. I'm just presenting workflow solutions.

    RED to Atomos might even be a solution here.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
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    Red Dragon
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Fabricio Morato's Avatar
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    So without having to go to legacy mode what I came up with was to use an inverted IPP2 and bake in my own flavor on top of it.. so it is basically negating the in camera IPP2 and using my LUT on top.. used photoshop to handle the LUT thing.. is this what you are after? I have to use the same inverted rolloff and gamma as the one in camera though..
    The inverted IPP2 I got it from Graeme.
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
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    Fabricio,


    I'm not sure exactly how the inverted IPP2 works, but wouldn't you loose the Highlight Recovery Algorithm , Out Of Gamut Color and Red Color Properties of the IPP2 transform doing that?


    And why not just do all this in post instead of in-camera if you are going to have a colorist, in Brendan's case, to color correct your images?
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