Thread: DRAGON in the used marketplace - question

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  1. #21  
    Jarred said on a post about this on Fb that they will looking at to change this, If I understood well.

    To me, even if I paid my dragon super quickly and it's my Backup cam now, it's rude to say that 4 years there is no repairs possible, even from 3rd party.

    Let's see
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Scot Yount's Avatar
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    I am curious how people here would solve this problem. You design a camera. You buy parts to build it. The companies that make those parts no longer make those parts. You run out of those parts. Now what? Seriously? I have a 2011 Scarlet MX. The most unfixable camera in the unfixable list. And you know what? I am not worried at all. I could buy another one if it failed for next to no money, in part, because they don't service them anymore. YMMV.
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  3. #23  
    2 months ago, I sold my Dragon Epic together with a nearly new EVF OLED DSCM2 for 8.5K. I also added my old Red media, 3 ok-ish batteries and some accessories that make only sense with this particular camera.

    In my opinion, with Canon's FF C500Mk coming in December and Sony's FX9 being out at the same time, sub 30-40k ready-to-shoot cine cameras will be getting heavily under pressure. I've shot with a 500MK2 prototype and I will say this: There won't be a meaningful market for any Red or other camera above 20k that is not an Arri or perhaps a Sony Venice. Even Monstro's top-tier market will get a severe hit. Why? Because FF is already the thing of course and 4K+ too, nothing particular innovative. Canon's C500MK2 ticks all the cinema boxes: 6k RAW, FF, S35mm, anamorphic, proper sound, superb EVF, affordable media, lightweight modular design and very good colour at less than 25k. And, of course, a reasonable maintainance time period.

    I'm writing this because the OP asked what a Epic Dragon is worth. Truth is, Dragon's colour was and still is good, and has a nice texture. But the OLPF is on the agressive/blurry side and the sensitivity not up to date. It's a fine camera for filmstudents and low budget filmmaking which makes it realistically worth approx. 4k give and take.

    The good news is that Red will have to drop prices heavily if they want to stay in the market, think of Monstro for 15k. Or they innovate to stay relevant. Interesting times for us who shoot and make films.

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  4. #24  
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    I agree with Hans 100%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hans von Sonntag View Post
    2 months ago, I sold my Dragon Epic together with a nearly new EVF OLED DSCM2 for 8.5K. I also added my old Red media, 3 ok-ish batteries and some accessories that make only sense with this particular camera.

    In my opinion, with Canon's FF C500Mk coming in December and Sony's FX9 being out at the same time, sub 30-40k ready-to-shoot cine cameras will be getting heavily under pressure. I've shot with a 500MK2 prototype and I will say this: There won't be a meaningful market for any Red or other camera above 20k that is not an Arri or perhaps a Sony Venice. Even Monstro's top-tier market will get a severe hit. Why? Because FF is already the thing of course and 4K+ too, nothing particular innovative. Canon's C500MK2 ticks all the cinema boxes: 6k RAW, FF, S35mm, anamorphic, proper sound, superb EVF, affordable media, lightweight modular design and very good colour at less than 25k. And, of course, a reasonable maintainance time period.

    I'm writing this because the OP asked what a Epic Dragon is worth. Truth is, Dragon's colour was and still is good, and has a nice texture. But the OLPF is on the agressive/blurry side and the sensitivity not up to date. It's a fine camera for filmstudents and low budget filmmaking which makes it realistically worth approx. 4k give and take.

    The good news is that Red will have to drop prices heavily if they want to stay in the market, think of Monstro for 15k. Or they innovate to stay relevant. Interesting times for us who shoot and make films.

    Hans
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  5. #25  
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    I bought my scarlet 2 months before RED announced they would no longer support it.To say I was disappointed is an understatement.It was a huge investment for me at the time.It was a risk which didn't pay off for me.I will never buy a RED again,no matter how good they are.I now shoot with a Panasonic eva1 which suits my style of shooting.It has its drawbacks but it is cheap and the colour science is pleasing for me.The new Sony and Canon look very promising indeed and for a price that's hard to beat.
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  6. #26  
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    I am curious how people here would solve this problem. You design a camera. You buy parts to build it. The companies that make those parts no longer make those parts. You run out of those parts. Now what? Seriously?
    It's pretty simple really. Step one - design something for longevity. Don't use components that have one supplier and are going to vanish in a couple of cycles. Or design more sub assemblies so you can substitute different components.

    Lets just for arguments sake say that that's impossible. You are at the whim of your suppliers. So when you planned for a 5% failure rate, and bought spare parts for that, triple it to 15%, buy that many parts. That solves the problem right quick. Sure everything gets a little more expensive, but I would much rather have my camera be a little more expensive, but retain it's value longer.

    Or, if the cameras are going to be disposable, they better get a lot cheaper. I'm not going to be pissed if my Z Cam can't be repaired.

    Nick
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    For those comparing RED to Arri support for legacy products, do you have any idea how much Arri repair costs are? I'm surprised people who bought used cameras at a discount are complaining. DSMC1 came out in 2011. That is ridiculously old for camera tech. We are moving to DSMC3 next year.
    That is not reasonable to me. My Canon 5d m3 is a true workhorse and I still use it for photography and it does just fine while being released in 2012. Being "old camera tech" is no justification for lack of support. I'm not asking for new features. I just want to be able to have my camera serviced when there are problems.

    The whole point of referring to ARRI for support is not based on price. Its based on SUPPORT. Me and I'm sure a lot others just want to feel secure that our purchases are not a waste.
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamil Stubbs View Post
    That is not reasonable to me. My Canon 5d m3 is a true workhorse and I still use it for photography and it does just fine while being released in 2012. Being "old camera tech" is no justification for lack of support. I'm not asking for new features. I just want to be able to have my camera serviced when there are problems.

    The whole point of referring to ARRI for support is not based on price. Its based on SUPPORT. Me and I'm sure a lot others just want to feel secure that our purchases are not a waste.
    The canon camera is a highly mass produced product in the millions with service centres around the world. The RED is a tiny niche product in comparison.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    The canon camera is a highly mass produced product in the millions with service centres around the world. The RED is a tiny niche product in comparison.
    Being in a "niche market' does not forgive a company to provide a short life cycle of its product. I would argue the company should provide a long lifespan to attract a life long customer base. That is how the usual market works.
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  10. #30  
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    The EU has just brought in legislation of 'Right To Repair'. At the moment I believe it only applies to household appliances but there is growing calls for it to be rolled out to lots of products. They are forcing Apple to make their products more repairable under greater accountability to reduce landfill and reduce climate change. It will be interesting to see how this moves forward.
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