Thread: Be afraid. Be very afraid

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  1. #21  
    Senior Member Satsuki Murashige's Avatar
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    I can see many shooting situations where this tool would be helpful. But as a cinematographer, the biggest obstacle I see is having to choose between the look of the lens that you want and the utility of the autofocus tool. No matter how good the tech gets, there are many of us who will continue to want the look of Cookes, Zeiss Supers, Master Primes, anamorphics, etc. The lens choice makes a such a big difference to the quality of the final image that I would hate to be confined to shooting only with clinical modern autofocus lenses. If they can also make this work with any lens by outputting the camera’s data through a cable from the lens mount to an external MDR, then I think more cinematographers would choose to use it on bigger budget projects.
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Aaron Green's Avatar
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    I've seen some demos of cinetape + Arri WCU + focus motors performing "auto focus" using Master Primes.
    Aaron Green - Chicago, IL
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member Satsuki Murashige's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Green View Post
    I've seen some demos of cinetape + Arri WCU + focus motors performing "auto focus" using Master Primes.
    Yes, but the topic was about how good the camera sensor-level autofocus has become. Cinetape has a lot more limitations, being based on ultrasound. I stopped pulling focus before the Light Ranger 2 came out, so I have no idea if that would be a viable option for autofocus. But I think in order for DPs to accept autofocus more broadly in narrative and commercial settings, it would need to work with their favorite lenses.
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member AndreeMarkefors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Useless for scripted work.
    That's right up there with "250 GB of hard drive is all you'll ever need in your lifetime" and "the internet is just a fad".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    No one wil wait on the set for doodling the camera algorythms to mimic a human hand.
    That's the whole point right? To not mimic some poor focus pullers fumbling with constant over/undershoot in a tricky scene, but to actually nail focus (when that's the intention).

    It's not either or, it's just a tool.
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  5. #25  
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    I was at a early screening for the film Uncut Gems where after the film the directors the Safdie brothers spoke about the production of the film, Josh Safdie in particular mentioned how Darius Khondji along with first assist/focus puller Chris Silano used a autofocus/focus assist system called Light Ranger 2 made by Preston. Josh raved about the system and even went as far as saying that without it it would have been impossible to get certain sequences shot, in particular the city exterior street scenes that they filmed on highspeed anamorphic telephoto lenses wide open, they wanted to give the actors freedom to move in the scenes naturally without restrictions or focus marks, they also were filming on live streets with real pedestrian and not a closed set. He said the Light Ranger 2 was a game changer and contributed greatly in achieving the intended look and feel of the film. If you look at demos of the system you can see just how impressive it truly is. My hope is that this type of tech makes its way down into more affordable systems in the future.

    https://www.fdtimes.com/2018/01/29/g...-focus-speak2/

    PS the film was fantastic, i cant wait to see it again when its out in theaters
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki Murashige View Post
    I can see many shooting situations where this tool would be helpful. But as a cinematographer, the biggest obstacle I see is having to choose between the look of the lens that you want and the utility of the autofocus tool. No matter how good the tech gets, there are many of us who will continue to want the look of Cookes, Zeiss Supers, Master Primes, anamorphics, etc. The lens choice makes a such a big difference to the quality of the final image that I would hate to be confined to shooting only with clinical modern autofocus lenses. If they can also make this work with any lens by outputting the camera’s data through a cable from the lens mount to an external MDR, then I think more cinematographers would choose to use it on bigger budget projects.

    There is no reason why pixel based auto focus would not work with external motors.
    Björn Benckert
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreeMarkefors View Post
    That's right up there with "250 GB of hard drive is all you'll ever need in your lifetime" and "the internet is just a fad".
    Motorized horses!

    What is this world coming to...pffft.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Useless for scripted work.

    No one wil wait on the set for doodling the camera algorythms to mimic a human hand and perfectly adapt to shot rythm and context according to director's intent.


    "Everybody on the set wait 'till I set this thing up".

    /money rolling away, actors stuck in emotion on hold/

    "Thank you bye bye"

    /Enters AC ninja hitting focus without the monitor/


    Also, when you tap on the focus point you are already late.
    Focus pulling is predictive. Focus puller has to follow action, anticipate and adapt in real time. There is no stuff to program, actors, camera and scene change and improvise on the go.

    Eye tracking, cat tracking, whatever tracking is useless if you have a rack focus from eyes to a cat to whatever, exactly at the right moment depending on a/b/c otherwise shot context changes, shot is not editable, shot makes less sense on none at all.

    Hmm, strange two big productions here in stockholm just started using patented beta versions of autofocus gears. With DPs and directors with several awards under their belt. They just love it.

    Then also, What are you talking about? You say focus pullers just go on intuition? Needs no time to set up? Does not need to mesure thier tape marks? Never ruin a god take on missed focus so there needs to be a new take?

    I dont know, I seen alot if tge above. I seen difficult focus work where a few hundred people been standing around waiting for focuspullers to nail thier take and the missed takes counts goes to the roof.

    Also done plenty of moco work where it can take days to set up focus targets for a take, where as a keyframe string from a autofocus would be a golden starting point. Run through the take with auto focus, clean the keyframe string, edit whats need to be edited and roll with an enhanced focus keyframe string for the actual takes.

    Not to mention, these days they use gimbals, cranes, stedycams etc in scripted work. And yes alot of those times ac’s struggle way more with estimating distance by eye or pull focus of a monitor etc, then they would do with face recognition focus or touch screen driven focusing.

    So yes saying its not for scripted work makes me doubt, have you been to alot of such shoots?
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
    +46855524900 www.syndicate.se/axis
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Shockingly Autofocus is a tool and a quickly advancing one for motion these days. It's honestly not needed for much of my work narrative or otherwise, but I 100% see applications where it shows it's advantages.

    No need to have a war against it. It's been around for a long time and getting better ever 3-9 months or so.
    Preeeeeeeeeecisely. I'm not sure why we are all pretending that every job we do is a tentpole feature film shooting on Master Primes. Jib and steadi ops at music festivals, documentary work, remote-mount applications on narrative work...there are so many applications where that C300M2 kinda AF would be very, very, very clutch. No need to flex.
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  10. #30  
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    I have been shooting for 30 + years and I for one love the advancements in Auto Focus. I have seen the demos with the Sony FX9 and was extremely impressed. This won't make any shot obsolete but it may make an impossible shot possible. Bring it on!
    Epic Dragon 4470,
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