Thread: New Video: How to get JOKER look

Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16
  1. #11  
    Waqas, thanks for trying to be a productive participant here on REDUSER.net. I watched the video and thought you did a decent job of both making proper disclaimers and showing a valid workflow for achieving a credible result based on footage that was likely shot for an entirely different purpose.

    I definitely agree that when color grading is part of an overall production plan, it play an almost magical role in making the look come to life. And I agree that without proper planning and execution, colorists can wind up with footage that's really a challenge to grade, whether due to bad exposure, bad contrast ratios, bad lighting quality, and so forth, all the way to terrible composition, inconsistent focus, bad set design, you name it.

    I think there is a lot of value to the idea of looking at what the masters do, and then analyzing it from the point of view to "how can I do more of that?" And I think your video does do this. There are many who have posted problematic footage on REDUSER.net who don't have the foggiest notion of why their footage looks so terrible or why they can't get the look they want. If they had done a more thorough study of reference material before they and/or their production team started the project--particularly how they or their production team solved real-world problems that helped to make the reference a good reference--they'd be miles ahead.

    Keep up the good work!
    Michael Tiemann, Chapel Hill NC

    "Dream so big you can share!"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #12  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hollywood, USA
    Posts
    6,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Waqas Qazi View Post
    �� you're fighting a losing battle, my friend. Let Marc tell the whole world how Color Grading is 100% harder than rocket science and no one can ever learn it then the only few that hold the key. Of course, he is one of them because he's been doing this before you or me or even our parents were born. ��

    It's laughable.
    But amazingly, it's true. My IMDB credits don't list the projects I did prior to 1980, but there were a few. And I worked as a camera operator for almost ten years before that.

    I have zero problems with accredited teachers who instruct people with the basics on color, particularly people who are certified by Blackmagic and follow a structured course. I also have no problem with people teaching specific techniques, especially for the stuff that's not covered thoroughly in the manuals -- and there's a lot of that. We all have something we can learn from each other, and no one person knows everything. Knowing Resolve is a process, a long journey, not a 30-minute YouTube video.

    However, there are a lot of minions and morons out there who call themselves "experts" after they've used software like Resolve for 2 or 3 years, and they come up with methods they think will match the look of Lord of the Rings, or The Matrix, ar The Revenant, or the Orange & Teal look, and on and on and on. I think this is just bullshit and bad for the industry, because it's as silly as it would be to say, "I can teach you how to edit just like Jim Cameron cuts his films," or "I can show you how to light and move the camera like Roger Deakins," or "I can show you the secrets of 4-time Oscar-winning sound mixer Greg Landaker" or "here's how to direct like Michael Bay." People who do this are selling a pipe dream at best, and perpetuating fraud at the worst.

    There are no secrets beyond time and hard work. As an old friend of mine likes to say: "it takes years of experience to get years of experience." The longer you work, the more lucky accidents and discoveries you'll make, especially with a program as deep as Resolve.

    If you were to just create general tutorials telling beginners how to use Resolve, I wouldn't say a word. At the same time, I do think spam posts on discussion groups like this are frowned upon. I don't mind real solutions and answers, but promoting YouTube channels is just an opportunity to make money and get recognition, nothing more. From my perspective, there's generally very little real information in the videos there. [There are rare exceptions, like the instructional pieces Juan Melara has done and a handful of others, but none of them are selling anything or making promises they can't keep.]

    The legit training resources like Ripple, FXPHD, and MixingLight are all fine and recommended, and there's good solid information there. The Resolve manual is good and their free textbooks are excellent. Blackmagic's accredition program is a great idea and recommended. And note that none of the accredited instructors tell students, "hey, do this and your work will look like a $50 million Hollywood film."
    marc wielage, csi colorist/post consultant daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Waqas Qazi View Post
    Shit ain't rocket science man. I know you're threatened cuz I'm showing people how easy it can be to create those looks. You sit back and hate. ������ So pety and grandpa of you. Come at me.
    I take back my compliments. You've gone rogue.
    Michael Tiemann, Chapel Hill NC

    "Dream so big you can share!"
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #14  
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by Waqas Qazi View Post
    Shit ain't rocket science man. I know you're threatened cuz I'm showing people how easy it can be to create those looks. You sit back and hate. ������ So pety and grandpa of you. Come at me.
    wow, get a grip man. yikes
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #15  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    347
    tale from the front lines, this week
    have a feature shot mainly on Alexa / RAW, with some dragon inserts
    shot last May
    art direction, wardrobe, set dec etc etc had a color pallette to work from that was no where near "Joker"
    was asked to try to move it into the "Joker" world, working in Resolve
    got close enough to make everyone happy with out any masks, or keys, or -vs- curves, or buckets-0-nodes
    worked in ACEScct, useing L*a*b, and Paul Dore's tools
    clean simple maths that copy/pasted across scenes with out any tweaks needed other than time of day and some matching, but that's normal
    the method shown at the start of the thread ism well, not clean maths, not simple, an to my eye looks like it's been worked over far too much
    you can get there much more simply if one undestands math a tiny bit, and has decent external scopes
    running out a DCP tonight once the last VFX are in, counted 3 shots with NR (all Dji) and eight shots with a key or mask out of 1280 shots
    pretty cool what can be done with a subtle hand, but it's harder than walking all over the image
    not a fan of the entire approach, would be a nightmare to match across 1280 shots
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #16  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hollywood, USA
    Posts
    6,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermot Shane View Post
    pretty cool what can be done with a subtle hand, but it's harder than walking all over the image
    not a fan of the entire approach, would be a nightmare to match across 1280 shots
    Dermot is very wise. I often sit back in the color room and calculate how many total shots are in the show when we conform, and a lot of modern films move fast, like 1500-1600 cuts in 2 hours. (Joker had longer cuts but I would bet required a lot of dynamics and windows, and had a longer run time. Blockbusters could easily go past 2000 cuts.) Even spending just 1 minute on color per cut is 1600 minutes, which is about 26 hours for a single pass (3 days).

    An additional pass with client could conceivably be another 26 hours (3 more days). Trims and fixes would add a couple more days to this. And if the client wants to get very fussy and critical, or they bring multiple people into the session, this amount of time could triple or quadruple very quickly. (I frequently will grouse, "I'm sorry, guys, but we can't turn this into a Clairol commercial," where they could literally spend 10 hours on 10 shots.) I've had a few clients for whom we never did more than 5-6 minutes of material per day. This is great when you have the time and budget, not so great when you're staring a delivery date in the face and a very limited budget. Really tough in the indie or episodic TV world.

    Simpler approaches for color can yield amazing results under the right conditions, but it does start with getting it right on set. I've seen many projects where on set or in dailies, 80% of the look is already right there. I particularly see this with bold, contemporary shows that use colored gels on set and all kinds of really complex lighting. We can't really do this kind of thing in color, unless you go with a very heavy VFX techniques... and again, that's not gonna happen in a show done in 2-3 weeks. Managing client expectations might be the single hardest job for any colorist. I'd love to see Waquas tackle that in his next tutorial, which I will watch. Even after 40 years, I have a hard time telling a client, "no, we're out of time, live with what you got, get the F out of here." Instead, I try to smile and say, "well, let's try and see what happens." But there is a point where a massive fancy look ain't gonna happen.

    One workaround used on big-budget blockbusters is to use a "team" approach, so there's really 3 or 4 colorists working on the same feature film often 24 hours a day in multiple rooms. Then, the supervising colorist can set looks on several key scenes, and the assistants (or regular colorists) maintain that look across multiple shots. And I have seen complex approaches work, particularly for extreme roto work, radical keys, layer mixers, defocus windows, and so on. Real world, it takes time to pull that off. Particularly for beginning colorists, you have to scale your expectations down and just get through each day and try to keep things reasonable. Imitiating a blockbuster look is not going to work when the material is far below a certain point.
    marc wielage, csi colorist/post consultant daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
    Reply With Quote  
     

Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts