View Poll Results: Which cameras color do you prefer form the Full Frame Cinema Shootout 2020

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  • 1

    54 73.97%
  • 2

    2 2.74%
  • 3

    9 12.33%
  • 4

    2 2.74%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 6

    1 1.37%
  • 7

    3 4.11%
  • 8

    1 1.37%
  • 9

    1 1.37%

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  1. #131  
    The Alexa LF is still the same sensor technology seen in all Arri cameras right? Is it safe to say the results seen by the LF in this test might be shared by the regular Mini, Alexa XT/Studio/Classic and the Amira? I imagine the full frame aspect of the LF’s sensor would result in better lowlight/noise than the smaller sensors. But would the highlight retention be the same?
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  2. #132  
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    Derek, short answer is yes, theyre the same (its not dissimilar to cropping in on RED sensors.)
    Last edited by Mike P.; 02-12-2020 at 08:55 AM.
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  3. #133  
    Evan great test, but as most have said the color grading process somewhat skews the results. Although rarely does footage go ungraded so in the real world the post process plays a big part, so take it as you will.
    Reds iPP2 w/LI_Color2 709
    Sony FX9- Slog3+Allister Chapman's FX9 LUT
    Sony FX9- S-Cinetone/No LUT
    Sony Venice Slog3Sgamut3.CineTolC-709
    Arri Mini LF- K1S1
    Sigma FP- Neutral/ No LUT
    Canon C500mII- Cinegamut_CanonLog3-709-WideDR
    Each of these cameras except for the sigma have well publish color primaries so creating transforms based on this to rec709 is quite trivial.
    Since not all cameras record RAW a method I prefer for our own in house tests is

    Native camera format (RAW or LOG)->Manufacturer suggested LOG and camera gamut (IE: arri LogC-AWG, Log3G10-RWG, Slog3-Sgamut3, etc, etc) -> Transform to REC709 Gamma 2.4 (DCTL, CTL, LUT)

    No grading should be done in this pipeline, lift and gain could be used to set a normalized appearance for overall levels. Its also important to be sure each camera is well exposed (not all ISO values are created equal) and uses the same color temperature settings.
    I generally use my sekonic C700 to measure Color Temp then set each camera accordingly.
    Using a setup like this sticks to each manufacturers suggested workflow, and using their own published data removes the "creative lut" variances from the process. As unfortunately not all LUTS are created equal and everyone likes to add a little of their own sauce to them, especially in highlight roll off.

    I would be very interested to see some of the RAW footage and put it through this process to see the differences.

    All that being said, great stuff and thanks for taking the time to post this.
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  4. #134  
    Senior Member Jeffery Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Doublin View Post
    The Alexa LF is still the same sensor technology seen in all Arri cameras right? Is it safe to say the results seen by the LF in this test might be shared by the regular Mini, Alexa XT/Studio/Classic and the Amira? I imagine the full frame aspect of the LFs sensor would result in better lowlight/noise than the smaller sensors. But would the highlight retention be the same?
    it's not the sensor size, but the size of photosite you're referring to

    dual ISO has changed the game and having larger photosites like Alexa's ALEV III isn't what other brands are doing... color reporduction within the highlights and shadows is more important and the Alexa did look good.

    personally, I do wonder if the Gemini was set to lowlight... or the Sony FX9... for the test?
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  5. #135  
    Moderator Evin Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffery Anderson View Post
    personally, I do wonder if the Gemini was set to lowlight... or the Sony FX9... for the test?
    The Gemini and FX9 were set to the "high" Base value ISOs for the night shots only.
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  6. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Doublin View Post
    The Alexa LF is still the same sensor technology seen in all Arri cameras right? Is it safe to say the results seen by the LF in this test might be shared by the regular Mini, Alexa XT/Studio/Classic and the Amira? I imagine the full frame aspect of the LFs sensor would result in better lowlight/noise than the smaller sensors. But would the highlight retention be the same?
    Here are some tests that show that the different sized Arri sensors react the same in terms of color, exposure, etc.

    https://vimeo.com/280481809

    https://vimeo.com/323187525
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  7. #137  
    Senior Member Jeffery Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evin Grant View Post
    The Gemini and FX9 were set to the "high" Base value ISOs for the night shots only.
    would it have been cheating if you did it for the 6 stop unexposed shots?

    or maybe you were testing for something else?

    just out of curiosity, I do wonder if pushing up the base iso would change the dynamic range and color rendition when overexposed... would you recorded better highlights/color?
    I have to try and change the landscape, whatever it is.
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  8. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffery Anderson View Post
    just out of curiosity, I do wonder if pushing up the base iso would change the dynamic range and color rendition when overexposed... would you recorded better highlights/color?
    No.

    Only analog gain changes recording, digital ISO slider is just how you present what is recorded.
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  9. #139  
    Senior Member Jens Jakob Thorsen's Avatar
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    Jens Jakob Thorsen DFF
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    Monstro VV
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  10. #140  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    I think this test is great, and as is super helpful.

    Thanks Evin so much for doing this.

    These things are a lot of work.


    Even just comparing the cameras with the manufacturers LUTS tells you a lot:

    1) The Alexa Mini LF is amazing.

    2) Monstro if you don't over expose it is amazing.

    3) Venice is also amazing

    4) Sigma FP is for stills

    5) Canon and Sony F9 are fine, but not in same league.

    6) Wow does Gemini look amazing. If you are going to underexpose, obv use LL mode.

    Basically no surprises.

    Curious how Komodo would hold up.
    Last edited by Nick Morrison; 02-12-2020 at 08:49 PM.
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