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  1. #5641  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvise Tedesco View Post
    The real problem with the Ursa is that complete lack of style. Even a BVW400 from the mid 90s is sexier
    Lol. I agree. I spent a lot of time with 400A's and D600's on my shoulder in the late 90's/early 00's. The BMD camera's just seem so consumerish in their design. Kinda like what Vitec did about five years ago(Vitec was worse, though. It all looked like Fisher-Price). I've laid my hands on one, and they are solid. WAY more than I imagined just looking at it, but they still look like they were designed by someone who had never actually touched a real camera, just looked at pictures and tried to translate it to a much less expensive consumer version. I mean, why is the ND turret knob so small and skinny? And the VF looks like it would snap the first time you grabbed it and made an adjustment in a hurry.
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  2. #5642  
    Junior Member Nick Korompilas's Avatar
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    has anyone confirmed if KOMODO can do 4k 60p using the full, uncropped S35 sensor?

    super curious about that, saw some articles stating this online but no "confirmed" info that I can find yet.

    EDIT: found this on Cinema5D, which is what I was referencing above

    6k full sensor @ up to 40fps
    6K wide (2.4:1) @ up to 48fps
    5k full sensor @ up to 48fps
    4k full sensor @ up to 60fps
    2k full sensor @ up to 120fps

    link: https://www.cinema5d.com/red-komodo-...otage-samples/
    Last edited by Nick Korompilas; 07-19-2020 at 02:03 PM.
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  3. #5643  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Rasberry View Post
    Definitely. BM images have always looked thin to me.
    Nonsense.
    I am not BM buyer but their images look organic. I am yet to see great images from Komodo. Thick? Who came up with that Joke slogan? I can not wait for Christmas when everyday users will get Komodo to give it serious tests. Not that we all need a new cameras if this World continues in this crazy path.
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  4. #5644  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Korompilas View Post
    has anyone confirmed if KOMODO can do 4k 60p using the full, uncropped S35 sensor?

    super curious about that, saw some articles stating this online but no "confirmed" info that I can find yet.

    EDIT: found this on Cinema5D, which is what I was referencing above

    6k full sensor @ up to 40fps
    6K wide (2.4:1) @ up to 48fps
    5k full sensor @ up to 48fps
    4k full sensor @ up to 60fps
    2k full sensor @ up to 120fps

    link: https://www.cinema5d.com/red-komodo-...otage-samples/
    Its cropped I believe.
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  5. #5645  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher A. Bell View Post
    Lol. I agree. I spent a lot of time with 400A's and D600's on my shoulder in the late 90's/early 00's. The BMD camera's just seem so consumerish in their design. Kinda like what Vitec did about five years ago(Vitec was worse, though. It all looked like Fisher-Price). I've laid my hands on one, and they are solid. WAY more than I imagined just looking at it, but they still look like they were designed by someone who had never actually touched a real camera, just looked at pictures and tried to translate it to a much less expensive consumer version. I mean, why is the ND turret knob so small and skinny? And the VF looks like it would snap the first time you grabbed it and made an adjustment in a hurry.
    THE BVW300/400 was probably the most ergonomic shoulder camera ever (comparing cameras of equal weight) and it was a nice visual design. But a big part was the fact that you had a big lens and a long camera due to the tape deck to balance things in front of and behind the shoulder.

    You guys are getting a little nitpicky on the URSA (how is substantial metal skeleton and metal (betacamlike) switches consumerish?) - especially on this forum when you consider the REDONE, DSMC1 and DSMC2 which had little to crow about in either style or ergonomic function.

    I have the URSA Broadcast which is the exact body style of the 12k. One of the things I really like about it is that it does have buttons, switches and knobs (plus xlrs) just like my old BVW300A (same body as BVW400). I understand the rationale for the red buttonless approach but it is still annoying to someone that has experienced the value of all those buttons and switches. (Handles and sidekick were ok but never quite fully satisfactory for shooting by yourself.)

    The Ursa doesn't balance as well on your shoulder due to the shorter length but it is definitely workable and much better than REDONE, DSMC1 and DSMC2 with any rig I have ever seen.

    Buttons, switches and knobs on the URSA all seem pretty robust. (A lot of u/w users have found RED buttons maybe a little less so.)

    Nothing here is meant to disparage Komodo or over compliment the URSA, but it sometimes a little annoying here to see the kind of unwarranted shots taken at BMD. Have they had their issues? - certainly - as have some other companies that delivered their first camera less than a dozen or so years ago

    Give props where props are due. Red has created what looks to be the first global shutter, cinema grade camera that gives quality images on a par with the very top cameras in the world - and in an ultracompact configuration.

    BMD seems to have a lot of the corporate history and culture that we liked about RED in the beginning too: RED: founder started out making bicycle hand grips and developed that business in to a multibillion dollar company, then turned his passion for cameras into a game changing, price disrupting cine camera business. BMD: guy working at a Post house designs and markets a cheap capture card and builds it to a broadly diversified video manufacturer and along the way saving and improving some of the great production tools - Resolve, Fairlight, Teranex, ATEM switchers, etc. And now they have developed some hardware and software tech that may prove to be a genuine jump forward - time will tell.
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  6. #5646  
    Senior Member Andy Roberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Korompilas View Post
    has anyone confirmed if KOMODO can do 4k 60p using the full, uncropped S35 sensor?
    The very nature of Redcode RAW means that you are not going to get FULL SENSOR at different sizes, because then it is no longer RAW. As the frame size goes down and the frame rate goes up, that is possible because it is using a more and more cropped portion of the sensor. It has always been that way with Red RAW.

    These tools from Phil Holland are VERY helpful. This is showing that the crop factor from full frame 6K Komodo to 4K Komodo is 1.5x. And the crop factor of Komodo at 6K compared to what most consider FULL FRAME is 1.33x. And Komodo 4K to Full Frame (Kodak Film FF35 Still 3:2) is 2.0x.

    http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/...&focalLengths=

    You MAY be able to get a full sensor 4K in ProRes (not Redcode RAW) but I do not think it is possible to get higher frame rates still... COULD be wrong about the frame rate issue but I don't think so.
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  7. #5647  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiri Vrozina View Post
    Nonsense.
    I am not BM buyer but their images look organic. I am yet to see great images from Komodo. Thick? Who came up with that Joke slogan? I can not wait for Christmas when everyday users will get Komodo to give it serious tests. Not that we all need a new cameras if this World continues in this crazy path.
    It’s an old film term to describe a negative.

    Take it up with Vilmos Zsigmund.
    Last edited by Andrew Dease; 07-20-2020 at 12:35 AM.
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  8. #5648  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Roberts View Post
    The very nature of Redcode RAW means that you are not going to get FULL SENSOR at different sizes, because then it is no longer RAW. As the frame size goes down and the frame rate goes up, that is possible because it is using a more and more cropped portion of the sensor. It has always been that way with Red RAW.

    These tools from Phil Holland are VERY helpful. This is showing that the crop factor from full frame 6K Komodo to 4K Komodo is 1.5x. And the crop factor of Komodo at 6K compared to what most consider FULL FRAME is 1.33x. And Komodo 4K to Full Frame (Kodak Film FF35 Still 3:2) is 2.0x.

    http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/...&focalLengths=

    You MAY be able to get a full sensor 4K in ProRes (not Redcode RAW) but I do not think it is possible to get higher frame rates still... COULD be wrong about the frame rate issue but I don't think so.
    No, it will never happen. Maybe DSMC3.
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  9. #5649  
    Senior Member Bastien Tribalat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiri Vrozina View Post
    Nonsense.
    I am not BM buyer but their images look organic. I am yet to see great images from Komodo. Thick? Who came up with that Joke slogan? I can not wait for Christmas when everyday users will get Komodo to give it serious tests. Not that we all need a new cameras if this World continues in this crazy path.
    Well, I don't know what qualifies to you as great but our very own Tim Daust has shot to video pretty great looking (IMO) which are worth looking at since it is the same kind of shots that BM showed on their camera announcement.



    As for the BM12K camera (and the 4.6K G2 for that matter) it is a great tech achievement and will produce lovely images (I don't like their Pocket line but I've always liked what the URSA line can produce). But it seems that (according to some other who are whay better at maths than me even if I have a pretty good understanding of how a stripped RGB array work) the real achievement is not the "12K" but the fact that when accounting for all the filtration and stuff the sensor has the same resolving power of the 4.6K BUT (and it's a HUGE BUT, no pun intended) the magic happens in the software (BRAW) so that with all he information the filter array can get it can produce a 12K file no problem and it can produce 8K and 4K as well (nowhere in the specs it says it's oversampled in-camera so it seems it's a process like pixel binning without the drawbacks thanks to the combo filter array + BRAW processing).
    That's anyway a summary of the few guesses gathered in the discussion over at the Cinematography Mailing List.
    Last edited by Bastien Tribalat; 07-20-2020 at 12:28 AM.
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  10. #5650  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bastien Tribalat View Post
    Well, I don't know what qualifies to you as great but our very own Tim Daust has shot to video pretty great looking (IMO) which are worth looking at since it is the same kind of shots that BM showed on their camera announcement.



    As for the BM12K camera (and the 4.6K G2 for that matter) it is a great tech achievement and will produce lovely images (I don't like their Pocket line but I've always liked what the URSA line can produce). But it seems that (according to some other who are whay better at maths than me even if I have a pretty good understanding of how a stripped RGB array work) the real achievement is not the "12K" but the fact that when accounting for all the filtration and stuff the sensor has the same resolving power of the 4.6K BUT (and it's a HUGE BUT, no pun intended) the magic happens in the software (BRAW) so that with all he information the filter array can get it can produce a 12K file no problem and it can produce 8K and 4K as well (nowhere in the specs it says it's oversampled in-camera so it seems it's a process like pixel binning without the drawbacks thanks to the combo filter array + BRAW processing).
    That's anyway a summary of the few guesses gathered in the discussion over at the Cinematography Mailing List.
    Second clip is incredible. First does not look good at all. Maybe a sensor issue, maybe firmware, maybe exposure.

    Second clip sells cameras.
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