Thread: KOMODO killing secondary market for DSMC cameras?

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  1. #21  
    Senior Member Russ Fill's Avatar
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    Considering all the differences. Especially in frame rates and duel record modes and quite a few others Im thinking that the secondary market will take a small hit yes but if you are looking for what a DSMC2 does you are not going to go out and buy a Komodo. Your going to buy a used DSMC2...
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Zack Birlew's Avatar
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    I think Komodo will have a big impact on the used market! The thing with RED now is the support for the cameras. Yes, I purchased a used RED One MX to film my first feature (still in VFX post!) and it did a wonderful job but I could tell that our second feature will be shot on something else because:

    1. Newer cameras are much smaller and lighter.
    2. Newer cameras are a great deal better in low light.
    3. Newer cameras have cheaper and future proof media options.
    4. Newer cameras are mirrorless and support far more lens options.
    5. Newer cameras have warranties and repair parts available.
    6. Newer cameras are more energy efficient.
    7. Newer cameras can offer higher resolution and/or frame rates depending.

    So, when using that logic against DSMC1 and DSMC2, the Komodo instantly offers better lens options, cheaper and more plentiful media options, lightweight body, competitive 6K resolution, RED image quality, and a brand new warranty with many years of parts ahead of it. The only question is low light performance and the 8K difference as well as how it stacks up to the competition. I had planned to get an Epic Dragon at some point after our first feature but even considering to use our Sony A7S initially on our first feature, the lack of RAW being the only drawback but having more low light and full frame imagery, I could see that the Epic Dragon would have been a much better option then but may not be the best choice now, especially since 8K is fast approaching the mainstream. For DSMC2, to be honest, I haven't paid too much attention as it really just is out of my price range and other than low light performance with Gemini or 8K with Epic-W or Weapon, I just didn't see much else over the Epic Dragon 6K. Now, there are options on the lower end for 6K and now with ZCam and Kinefinity, there's 8K and, based on early footage that I've seen, really nice 8K too! There are, of course, low light improvements all around as well with more RAW options being added in the mix. So, just with that, Komodo has a lot to live up to but if I didn't have another option back when we were planning for my first feature, the Komodo would have been a definite get. Right now there's so much in flux with cameras and I honestly don't need a new one until we get the second feature ready to go and who knows what will be out by then. If RED Epic Dragons drop down around the $4K to $5K mark, I might be more tempted but with ZCam and possibly Blackmagic throwing out a surprise, I would really have to consider things for the long game more than immediate need or usefulness and I feel a lot of other filmmakers may be in the same boat.
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  3. #23  
    As I see it for most a kommodo is a great owner/user camera. If you got such you likly very rarly need to go rent a dsmc2. And for those time you do rent a dsmc2 then you got a really good b cam in your komodo.
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack Birlew View Post
    I think Komodo will have a big impact on the used market! The thing with RED now is the support for the cameras. Yes, I purchased a used RED One MX to film my first feature (still in VFX post!) and it did a wonderful job but I could tell that our second feature will be shot on something else because:

    1. Newer cameras are much smaller and lighter.
    2. Newer cameras are a great deal better in low light.
    3. Newer cameras have cheaper and future proof media options.
    4. Newer cameras are mirrorless and support far more lens options.
    5. Newer cameras have warranties and repair parts available.
    6. Newer cameras are more energy efficient.
    7. Newer cameras can offer higher resolution and/or frame rates depending.

    So, when using that logic against DSMC1 and DSMC2, the Komodo instantly offers better lens options, cheaper and more plentiful media options, lightweight body, competitive 6K resolution, RED image quality, and a brand new warranty with many years of parts ahead of it. The only question is low light performance and the 8K difference as well as how it stacks up to the competition. I had planned to get an Epic Dragon at some point after our first feature but even considering to use our Sony A7S initially on our first feature, the lack of RAW being the only drawback but having more low light and full frame imagery, I could see that the Epic Dragon would have been a much better option then but may not be the best choice now, especially since 8K is fast approaching the mainstream. For DSMC2, to be honest, I haven't paid too much attention as it really just is out of my price range and other than low light performance with Gemini or 8K with Epic-W or Weapon, I just didn't see much else over the Epic Dragon 6K. Now, there are options on the lower end for 6K and now with ZCam and Kinefinity, there's 8K and, based on early footage that I've seen, really nice 8K too! There are, of course, low light improvements all around as well with more RAW options being added in the mix. So, just with that, Komodo has a lot to live up to but if I didn't have another option back when we were planning for my first feature, the Komodo would have been a definite get. Right now there's so much in flux with cameras and I honestly don't need a new one until we get the second feature ready to go and who knows what will be out by then. If RED Epic Dragons drop down around the $4K to $5K mark, I might be more tempted but with ZCam and possibly Blackmagic throwing out a surprise, I would really have to consider things for the long game more than immediate need or usefulness and I feel a lot of other filmmakers may be in the same boat.
    An Epic Dragon is still a valuable camera for those who want higher frame rates, etc. 120fps at 4K is not to be underestimated, and has value.

    Also packages that include lens mounts, monitors, mags, cages and cases will be snapped up if priced properly.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    An Epic Dragon is still a valuable camera for those who want higher frame rates, etc. 120fps at 4K is not to be underestimated, and has value.

    Also packages that include lens mounts, monitors, mags, cages and cases will be snapped up if priced properly.
    Seems like Zack had it right. As I said before, there is just so much happening in the past year, next few months that it is hard to see many people wanting to pay more than $2K-$3K for a DSMC or $4K-$5K for DSMC2 other than Monstro and maybe Helium/Epic-w.

    Regarding 4k-120 Take a look at specs for the soon to be released EOS R5 (seemingly <$4K):

    4K internal video recording up to 119.88 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265).

    4K external recording is also available up to 59.94 fps.

    No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.*

    Obviously we will have to see actual footage on the R5 but no reason to think it won't be good. Full frame (36x24) 8K sensor, OTS media, IBIS, Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K recording modes, support for EOS-R lenses, hand held gimbal friendly, normal professional still photo with extensive flash support, RAW recording, etc. etc. All that will provide stiff competition for all current and announced cameras and will drive all of the competitors to provide higher quality, higher resolution, higher frame rates at lower prices. With tens or hundreds of thousands of unit sales, plus revenues from lenses Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Panasonic can afford to provide phenomenal bang for the buck.

    I've been a RED owner since January 2008, and bought every new generation except Monstro, and have Komodo on my purchase list - but ignoring the overall state of the market isn't wise. So far Red has managed to keep pace with better sensors and more cine friendly packaging, but without the global shutter Komodo would have really stiff competition even at its $6K price point - and it will be interesting to see if RED can keep up as we move into the DSMC3 era.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    I think even Raven has features that Komodo doesn't. Am I wrong? Although I don't like the EF mount at all, but now I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    I think even Raven has features that Komodo doesn't. Am I wrong? Although I don't like the EF mount at all, but now I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
    It has highspeed. It shoots 4K 120fps.
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