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  1. #51  
    Senior Member joshua csehak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    To RED shooters and the REDDCODE RAW indoctrinated, we know how to use it and absolutely have enjoyed the flexibility. But from a very realistic perspective, this camera is about to be put into the hands of people who have no familiarity with the RED ecosystem.
    But if you look at the competition (s1h, a7*, canon c-series, etc), they have options up the WAZOO. A hojillion different codecs, gammas, compression types (all i, IPB, GOP, blah blah).

    "How much compression? (2-22)" doesn't sound very complicated at all. Engineering-wise, do what ya gotta do, I get that. But usability-wise, I think it should be a range that starts at [indistinguishable from zero compression] and goes to [as compressed as possible that won't make Jarred throw his computer at the wall when he sees it], in increments of [whatever difference is reasonably noticeable].
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    I'm also interested in Yann's question above. If there is a processor limitation, does this result in us being limited to lower compression on Komodo, or less efficient compression, or both? Is it possible that LQ will be ~4:1 compression but will only be as good as DSMC2 8:1? Will we have to double our data rate to get similar quality to DSMC2? Can you see any difference between the current HQ (~2:1) and MQ (~3:1)? I'm guessing they are both pretty much visually lossless, but it would be interesting to see a wide MQ shot with lots of small moving detail.

    And has it been confirmed that Komodo is DCT not wavelet?
    Just read over on the Komodo Users FB group that the current ratios give 60min per TB for HQ and 1h26 for MQ, so perhaps Red has increased the MQ compression. Still curious if Komodo compression is different to DSMC2 and exactly what the compromise is. If we are going to need to double the data for the same quality (or if there is not going to be a relatively high compression option) the additional cards, storage and data transfer time need to be taken into account.
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  3. #53  
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    Can we please get an answer on this... With stormtroopers starting to ship, and purchase emails from Clark right around the corner, I think the REDuser community deserves an answer when it takes into consideration what form of RAW Komodo will actually shoot. If there is a difference between "REDcode-A" from Komodo and "REDcode-B" from DSMC2 cameras technically and legally speaking it should be made public knowledge prior to bringing a product to market and if there is a difference with Komodo's form of RAW it really should be named differently (i.e. REDcode-XYZ). At this point (6-pages later in this thread), it appears RED is dodging one of the most important questions that remain to be known regarding this camera.

    I think these are some very relevant questions yet to be answered:

    • Is Komodo REDcode RAW Wavelet or DCT based?
    • What are the equivalent rates of compression in HQ,MQ,LQ (i.e. 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 etc.)?
    • Will firmware address the currently available compression ratios in the future to expand available options or to improve data rates if they are not on par with current DSMC2 cameras?
    • Will Komodo be part of the RED upgrade program when DSMC3 comes out? I know Jarred said Komodo "is not a DSCM2 camera or DSCM3" so does this mean it is a "one-off" and non-upgradeable at any point in the future?
    • Is there potentiality for modifications to selectable frame rates and resolutions with future updates (i.e. 5k WS / 50-60fps or 3K WS flavors)?

    I know the answers to these questions will directly impact many individuals choice to purchase Komodo but I think some clarity here would make people that may be on the fence to feel a lot more confident in moving forward with a komodo purchase. I would hate to see a mass majority of individuals purchase a Komodo prior to a release of full specifications to the general public to later find out the REDcode offered on Komodo is not exactly what they were expecting and the same as what they are used to with DSMC2 cameras. Sounds like a great way to get a loyal community pretty upset with a company due to a lack of clarity. Like it or not....
    Last edited by Andrew Reese; 07-22-2020 at 01:51 PM.
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  4. #54  
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    I would like to know as well as this would be my first red camera. I've been really excited for this camera because of the redcode raw, the size and price. Mainly red code raw! I really hope komodo holds up with the big boys. I know it lacks frame rate and other stuff but I can work around that.
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  5. #55  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    As I have a Komodo in hand, its very much REDCODE.
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  6. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    As I have a Komodo in hand, its very much REDCODE.
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  7. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshua csehak View Post
    But if you look at the competition (s1h, a7*, canon c-series, etc), they have options up the WAZOO. A hojillion different codecs, gammas, compression types (all i, IPB, GOP, blah blah).

    "How much compression? (2-22)" doesn't sound very complicated at all. Engineering-wise, do what ya gotta do, I get that. But usability-wise, I think it should be a range that starts at [indistinguishable from zero compression] and goes to [as compressed as possible that won't make Jarred throw his computer at the wall when he sees it], in increments of [whatever difference is reasonably noticeable].
    I completely agree with this statement. Most prosumer cameras have multiple different codecs and all kinds of things I STILL dont even understand fully like I-LongGOP and all these other weird things and I'm a professional working with major camera systems. So if the prosumer market is ok with all that stuff from Sony and the like, I'm pretty sure simple REDRAW compression is about as easy as it gets to understand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Reese View Post
    Can we please get an answer on this... With stormtroopers starting to ship, and purchase emails from Clark right around the corner, I think the REDuser community deserves an answer when it takes into consideration what form of RAW Komodo will actually shoot. If there is a difference between "REDcode-A" from Komodo and "REDcode-B" from DSMC2 cameras technically and legally speaking it should be made public knowledge prior to bringing a product to market and if there is a difference with Komodo's form of RAW it really should be named differently (i.e. REDcode-XYZ). At this point (6-pages later in this thread), it appears RED is dodging one of the most important questions that remain to be known regarding this camera.

    I think these are some very relevant questions yet to be answered:

    • Is Komodo REDcode RAW Wavelet or DCT based?
    • What are the equivalent rates of compression in HQ,MQ,LQ (i.e. 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 etc.)?
    • Will firmware address the currently available compression ratios in the future to expand available options or to improve data rates if they are not on par with current DSMC2 cameras?
    • Will Komodo be part of the RED upgrade program when DSMC3 comes out? I know Jarred said Komodo "is not a DSCM2 camera or DSCM3" so does this mean it is a "one-off" and non-upgradeable at any point in the future?
    • Is there potentiality for modifications to selectable frame rates and resolutions with future updates (i.e. 5k WS / 50-60fps or 3K WS flavors)?

    I know the answers to these questions will directly impact many individuals choice to purchase Komodo but I think some clarity here would make people that may be on the fence to feel a lot more confident in moving forward with a komodo purchase. I would hate to see a mass majority of individuals purchase a Komodo prior to a release of full specifications to the general public to later find out the REDcode offered on Komodo is not exactly what they were expecting and the same as what they are used to with DSMC2 cameras. Sounds like a great way to get a loyal community pretty upset with a company due to a lack of clarity. Like it or not....
    I remember Jarred stating that the Stormtrooper komodo program is technically still a "Beta" program. So I dont think they have any legal or other issues with not posting hard information about the camera. It's an early adaption to a camera in Beta, and if you want hard spec numbers, most likely you'd have to wait for the black
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  8. #58  
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    I've heard multiple times from Jarred that Komodo has nothing to do with either DSMC product lines, and there for I don't think there would be any possible upgrade paths unless they come up with something like a Komodo FF (which might happen one day). But as it stands I see them clearly stating that Komodo is it's own thing.

    I dont think you'll be able to get hard answers about anything from this Beta program of Komodo, framerates / resolution options im sure are possible to add, but you gotta remember they are still testing and tweaking these cameras even while we shoot with them for years, like DSMC 1,2,3. Komodo has less processing power than those lines so I'm sure there will be some limits and such, but thats to be expected for such a cheap camera system.

    We will get answers slowly I'm sure, but I wouldn't expect a lot until most stormtrooper models are out in the world and they ramp up to black full production.
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  9.   This is the last RED TEAM post in this thread.   #59  
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Reese View Post
    Can we please get an answer on this... With stormtroopers starting to ship, and purchase emails from Clark right around the corner, I think the REDuser community deserves an answer when it takes into consideration what form of RAW Komodo will actually shoot. If there is a difference between "REDcode-A" from Komodo and "REDcode-B" from DSMC2 cameras technically and legally speaking it should be made public knowledge prior to bringing a product to market and if there is a difference with Komodo's form of RAW it really should be named differently (i.e. REDcode-XYZ). At this point (6-pages later in this thread), it appears RED is dodging one of the most important questions that remain to be known regarding this camera.

    I think these are some very relevant questions yet to be answered:

    • Is Komodo REDcode RAW Wavelet or DCT based?
    • What are the equivalent rates of compression in HQ,MQ,LQ (i.e. 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 etc.)?
    • Will firmware address the currently available compression ratios in the future to expand available options or to improve data rates if they are not on par with current DSMC2 cameras?
    • Will Komodo be part of the RED upgrade program when DSMC3 comes out? I know Jarred said Komodo "is not a DSCM2 camera or DSCM3" so does this mean it is a "one-off" and non-upgradeable at any point in the future?
    • Is there potentiality for modifications to selectable frame rates and resolutions with future updates (i.e. 5k WS / 50-60fps or 3K WS flavors)?

    I know the answers to these questions will directly impact many individuals choice to purchase Komodo but I think some clarity here would make people that may be on the fence to feel a lot more confident in moving forward with a komodo purchase. I would hate to see a mass majority of individuals purchase a Komodo prior to a release of full specifications to the general public to later find out the REDcode offered on Komodo is not exactly what they were expecting and the same as what they are used to with DSMC2 cameras. Sounds like a great way to get a loyal community pretty upset with a company due to a lack of clarity. Like it or not....
    I suggest you find a way to learn to ask your questions in a little less of a douchebaggy-i-am-a-lawyer-stomp-my-feet-wah-wah-wah- kinda way..... Your questions are valid and I have already addressed them but I'm not in the mood to deal with your expectations of entitlement right now. NOBODY should buy a Komodo if they are unsure about it, the specs are not complete yet as I have said 100 times and wont be until the black cameras ship and will change 100 times.

    But anyways... Phil ( as usual ) shows how questions should be asked and answered, and I added a bit of insight over there. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...-RAW-Explained
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