Thread: Blackmagic Camera Update July 2020

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  1. #121  
    Not sure if this is verboten to ask on REDUSER... but do R3Ds still have that weird encryption slowing them down?

    You know, the encryption they added presumably to a) hide the fact that REDCODE is very similar to JPEG2000 and b) to stop Cineform from decoding them and force everyone to use the SDK?

    Maybe they can turn that off now and stuff can decode a little bit faster?

    I do remember at the time it seemed super paranoid and was a big factor in convincing me to take a look at Arri more seriously (this turned out to be a great move for my career). I like Blackmagic's more open approach too.

    Now in these more sunny open days where Komodo can write to non-proprietary media we can get a more open RED too?

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  2. #122  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Šabović Adis View Post
    I'd take Alexa, of course.
    So I can sell it and buy 5 12K Ursas.
    5 Ursas should be enough to ensure you always have one that works.
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  3. #123  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Meyer View Post
    5 Ursas should be enough to ensure you always have one that works.
    Ha ha, sad but true. I have two OG pocket cameras and neither works. Still have a case full of super 16 super speeds I wish I could use.
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  4. #124  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Allen View Post
    Not sure if this is verboten to ask on REDUSER... but do R3Ds still have that weird encryption slowing them down?

    You know, the encryption they added presumably to a) hide the fact that REDCODE is very similar to JPEG2000 and b) to stop Cineform from decoding them and force everyone to use the SDK?

    Maybe they can turn that off now and stuff can decode a little bit faster?

    I do remember at the time it seemed super paranoid and was a big factor in convincing me to take a look at Arri more seriously (this turned out to be a great move for my career). I like Blackmagic's more open approach too.

    Now in these more sunny open days where Komodo can write to non-proprietary media we can get a more open RED too?

    Bruce Allen
    www.bruceallen.tv
    Mmmm. Delicious aftertaste taste of time machine teleportation! I shouldn't be lured out to answer this because it's been a decade of improvements that seem to be overlooked here.

    First, it's not 2008/2009 anymore where much of the stems of that perspective come from, but good memory! Second, REDCODE RAW encryption has allowed it to be used in areas where an encrypted RAW file is necessary, yes that's a thing and isn't exactly slowing anything down these days. Back in the 2000s however when our computers were steam powered, yes, a slight hit.

    Third and Fourth. We've not only had GPU Acceleration be implemented "way back when", but now most recently GPU Decode for realtime playback at full debayer. Far are we from the days where 18-72 hour exports were commonplace. With decent hardware you can export faster than realtime, with very decent hardware about 8X realtime. With modest hardware, slower than realtime, but REDCODE RAW is workable in realtime nonetheless, which allows 16GB laptops to even play.

    Fifth. REDCODE has evolved a whole lot through the years, what it was "then" isn't what it is now. Highly visible in the shear quality of the footage as the cameras as RAW codec advanced when pixel peeping.

    I guess sixth for fun, I did everything in my power to avoid using RED ROCKET-X hardware over the years which you'll note isn't really visible in any of my builds, though it was an acceleration card in an era where a lot of things were being sorted and certainly useful, especially for those who figured out how to use them for fast as hell dailies years ago, I haven't seen the need or application for one in several years. Things have evolved and advanced.


    I'm currently editing and grading from a Dell Precision 7750 right this second, a fairly beefy maxed out mobile workstation. Full Debayer 8K REDCODE RAW 5:1 in Resolve. Previously I was using a $1500 Razer notebook to do similar utilizing 1/4 and 1/2 debayer. I have systems here that can export faster than real time, edit multiple streams, etc.

    REDCODE RAW is still nimble, actual compressed RAW, and 16-bit. And you can tweak things within your grading software to go to 10-bit or 12-bit if you need to speed things up from there or decimate for playback using 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 debayer.

    In reference to Komodo, I think the fun eye opener I had was since I'm such a GPU acceleration/decode advocate I on a whim turned it off and was happy to see what the pure CPU performance was on 8 through 18 core systems. Oddly I haven't had a frame on my big boy Xeon workstation yet, I use that for uncompressed 16-bit high resolution playback mainly.


    You would need to have a potato computer, perhaps an ancient potato computer to not work efficiently with REDCODE RAW. I ran into somebody last year who was griping about their performance on mere 6K material, I toggled Cuda on and his eyes began to glow fiery red as the power that suddenly pulsed through his veins, a power that was there all along, was unlocked and allowed him to not cry about how his $$$$$ custom built system sucked. Because it didn't suck. He just didn't know how to setup his software to optimally work with any footage. I also had to twist his arm about not expecting the same performance from external cheapo 90MB/s USB 3 drives versus his bad ass internal RAID, I think 1200MB/s if I recall right. More or less like racing a Beetle versus a Ferrari in that case, but I digress.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

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  5. #125  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandros Tsoupras View Post
    John thanks for your reply. Is the sensor 12bit like the color depth or higher?
    Ill have to get back to you on that....I never thought to ask ! Previous UMP, the 4.6K, the current G2 and the OG BMCC and the OG pocket were all dual gain sensors (like Alexa) and were combined into 16 bit lin and then stored as 12 bit log (like Alexa).

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  6. #126  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Pultz View Post
    JB, please use your super powers to have them get 8K DCI or 16x9 120fps working :) 110 is so close!
    It will be soon. I was shooting in 2.4:1 8K BRAW today and it goes to 140 FPS already (across two cards)

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  7. #127  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post
    It will be soon. I was shooting in 2.4:1 8K BRAW today and it goes to 140 FPS already (across two cards)

    JB
    Awesome. If they can pull off 120fps at the larger frame size, absolutely amazing.
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  8. #128  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrae Palmer View Post
    Trying to wrap my head around the differences between an RGB vs Bayer pattern sensor. Can someone explain why this camera can still shoot RAW without sensor cropping for the lower resolutions?
    It's RGB in equal balance and a bunch of W(hite) as well.

    By combining the way they're symmetrically arranged (and can be dynamically re-arranged) and because of the pixel density in combination with a codec that can was designed to work specifically with this sensor, then they can basically arrange and re-arrange the groups. Ahh like binning I said when I first heard this but I believe it's not really binning either because of the "smart" way the groups are arranged at the sensor level, something that the codec drives.

    I'm just a camera guy, not THAT nerdy...I just know that it works really well and so far I've not really found the kinds of artefacts that would normally go with line skipping and binning. I'll be hopefully posting some more soon...

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  9. #129  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Pultz View Post
    80mp is higher than I have ever seen. It should be close to out resolving most lenses?
    Mathew Duclos had a post on his FB group talking about this issue.

    To paraphrase, he said by his maths the 12K sensor should resolve to 227 LP/mm and that the benchmark for a sharp lens is 200LP/mm, but he also elaborated that lenses are "analog" devices and don't really have a breaking point, and later said..."don't get too caught up in the megapixels"

    I would say that this camera will show up a bigger difference in lenses from the high end to the lower end. You might have gotten away with hiding some sins on some more entry level lenses on other cameras compared to higher performing lenses, but this camera opens up a bigger gap.

    However it depends on what you're judging by, and generally LP'mm isn't the best way to asses a lens...well it's only one part and many would say, not as important as other attributes...

    JB
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  10. #130  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Brawley View Post
    Mathew Duclos had a post on his FB group talking about this issue.

    To paraphrase, he said by his maths the 12K sensor should resolve to 227 LP/mm and that the benchmark for a sharp lens is 200LP/mm, but he also elaborated that lenses are "analog" devices and don't really have a breaking point, and later said..."don't get too caught up in the megapixels"

    I would say that this camera will show up a bigger difference in lenses from the high end to the lower end. You might have gotten away with hiding some sins on some more entry level lenses on other cameras compared to higher performing lenses, but this camera opens up a bigger gap.

    However it depends on what you're judging by, and generally LP'mm isn't the best way to asses a lens...well it's only one part and many would say, not as important as other attributes...

    JB
    Cool. Ideally the sensor would always out perform the lenses, and the lenses should perform exceptionally well in addition to that :)
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