Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Komodo REDCODE RAW Explained

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  1. #11  
    Thanks Phil! Good summary!

    More heresy from me... but I never really liked the wavelet codec. I get that wavelet was the rage at the time (wasn't Cineform raw codec which preceded RED also wavelet-based?) but it was slow to play back at the time (slower than Cineform for some reason) and still is. As I said on another thread, my specced-to-the-max 2019 Macbook Pro can't play it at half res while it plays back Arri LF full quality fine.

    Also at high ratios, REDCODE didn't seem well-suited to the fine grain noise of digital sensors. I did tests that showed that at high compression ratios you lose practically a stop in the shadows because the wavelet encoding couldn't handle the sensor noise and suddenly fine grain would become blotchy. After that my life was a constant battle pleading with whoever was shooting stuff to shoot as low a compression ratio as possible. It helped... but of course at high speed modes you often couldn't do that. And all the DPs give you this look because you're asking to burn through their super-expensive proprietary card collection :)

    Anyway, I'm glad things are going in a better direction now. DCT is proven - and works great for Arri, Sony, Canon, Blackmagic, Apple, Avid, etc. Glad RED is not too proud to hang onto something that was a great idea but in the end probably didn't work out quite as planned for reasons beyond their control (tough to design a compression method to fit the way CPU and GPU architectures will evolve over decades!).

    Bruce Allen
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  2. #12  
    Member Juan Francisco Calero's Avatar
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    Mar 2007
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    That’s invaluable information. Thank you so much, Phil! And “Feliz Cumpleaños”!!
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member vincent kardasik's Avatar
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    Apr 2009
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    Thanks for the write up and happy birthday Phil!
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member yann LHENORET's Avatar
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    HPBD2U Phil, and thank you for sharing all this with us.
    Documentary shaper, "that guy...".
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  5. #15  
    Member Taylor Magyar's Avatar
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    Feb 2009
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    Thank you for all that you do and happy birthday!
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  6.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
    Love you Phil, well done and thank you. And happy birthday!

    Few things to add to your overview, First REDCODE has evolved with every camera generation from REDONE to EPIC to DSMC2 and now Komodo and DSCM3, all of them using different/modified compression foundations. And just like now all these evolutions have been almost invisible to the end user. The actual compression engine that is chosen to go into a camera are more about the media environment and the post production hardware market than they do with what is going on in the camera, as almost all actual compression engines share a similar quality just at different efficiencies. Some work better with super compression at the expense of massive end hardware requirements like various wavelets, some like DCT are fantastic at keeping detail specially as you feed it more bits.

    Remember the Red One was recording 40MB/s.. a fraction of what we are at today and to play 4k back in realtime back in those days cost a machine that cost as much as a house. So most people were forced to work in a lower wavelt of resolution or purchase a RED ROCKET which I very publicly hated to force our customers to buy into to get the best experience.

    Fast forward to today... We live in a world where storage is fast and cheap and most relatively affordable consumer computers are capable at 8k realtime playback, we get to update REDCODE again to take advantage of the landscape. This is a a forward step, the version of REDCODE inside Komodo wasn't just developed for Komodo, We started developing it may years ago for and will be used in DSMC3 and forward until something better comes along and we upgrade it again.

    But make no mistake.. it's still REDCODE. We still are tweaking... the army of stormtroopers that go out in the coming weeks will help with that, so expect a lot of improvements along the way as we march towards the actual release... because remember, Komodo still doesn't actually officially exist yet :)
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  7. #17  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    Thanks dude. Appreciate that.

    Can't stress enough but when I left my former $100 million studio and was doing work from my home on par with that ecosystem within the first year of jumping in to the RED ecosystem from my home, it was incredibly powerful. Still is.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member joshua csehak's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    Happy birthday Phil! Thanks for that. You're a frood who really knows where his towel is.

    Guess I've gotta grudgingly give up the glory of getting 2 hours on a 512 card. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted :) Definitely sounds like SSDs now need to be built into every workflow.
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  9. #19  
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    Aug 2008
    Concise, cogent, educational. Great post Phil, thanks.
    Congratulations on beating your personal best record for number of consecutive days alive!

    I have spent many hours of fun processing uncompressed CDNG raw in stills processors like Raw Therapee. That one includes an entire menu of wavelet debayer transforms that produce unique and interesting image textures impossible to duplicate in other ways.

    But at 5 to 8 seconds per frame for 2K 16:9 Red format out of my Bolex it gets reserved strictly for fine art uses.
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  10. #20  
    Happy Birthday!!

    I have so many questions, but all are variable so I will wait ... unpatiently, pacing back and forth, like always!!
    Scarlet-X #2034 "Bea"
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